Correct. I did not post it to the Moto list, though that is where the questions originated.
Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... It was forwarded to the general wisp list. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... > How did you get the thread then? > > Lonnie > > On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I"m not on that list. >> sorry, >> marlon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... >> >> >> Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? >> Thanks. >> >> Patrick >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >> >I found this thread interesting. >> > >> >Enjoy, >> >marlon >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 >> >5:51 >> >PM >> >Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... >> > >> > >> >So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about >> >Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them >> >from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some >> >use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. >> > >> > >> > >> >Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: >> >760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? >> > >> > No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e >> > used. >> > Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God >> > forbid!) >> > >> > How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA >> > show the channel width to be? >> > >> > Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE >> > will >> > adjust automatically. >> > >> > What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without >> > reflector, with? >> > >> > The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the >> > VL >> > to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at >> > 5 >> > miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your >> > Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure >> > produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o >> > reflector >> > is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a >> > reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 >> > miles. >> > >> > Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to >> > assist >> > in the network development of Canopy products? >> > >> > There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty >> > of >> > opportunity for direct consultation. >> > >> > Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? >> > >> > In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which >> > include >> > QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the >> > box >> > (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) >> > >> > Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that >> > allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? >> > Can >> > you mix breeds of SM on the AP? >> > >> > VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with >> > trees, >> > but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates >> > (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a >> > lower >> > rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you >> > wish. >> > All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. >> > >> > Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? >> > >> > In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. >> > >> > Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? >> > >> > Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per >> > subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its >> > limit. >> > >> > Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the >> > radio's ability to co-locate? >> > >> > The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be >> > either >> > H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of >> > antenna >> > choice). >> > >> > Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)? >> > >> > N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with >> > the >> > optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is stable >> > at >> > 4 or less ms. >> > >> > >> > What is the maximum PPS per AP? >> > >> > Up to about 60000 downstream and 48000 upstream. >> > >> > Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an end-user >> > launching a DoS attack? >> > >> > Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically >> > because of this threat. >> > >> > How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist >> > this? >> > >> > Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288 >> > CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better >> > than >> > 4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1 and >> > many >> > tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also run >> > tons >> > of concurrent data. The graphs show this too. >> > What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can >> > handle? >> > >> > VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically prioritize >> > VoIP >> > over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just >> > dedicating >> > a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the same >> > time, >> > VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of low >> > priority traffic. >> > >> > Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP? >> > >> > We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our >> > implementation. >> > >> > Are the SMs SNMP capable, or only the data from a SM through the AP? >> > >> > Yes, if set to be one of the management consoles. >> > >> > What improvements over the current APs does Motorola hope to achieve >> > in >> > the next generation? >> > >> > VL was launched in 2002. Then it only netted about 12mbps. It now nets >> > 32mbps. Many features have been added, such as 4th gen CIR/MIR, >> > broadcast >> > rate limiting, VoIP from 40 calls per sector to 288, pps from about >> > 3,000 >> > to what I noted above, etc., etc. This has always been done with >> > backward >> > compatibility. (I can't yet name specific new features as v4.0 and rev >> > E >> > are both already new.) >> > >> > Since Canopy's inception has there been an upgrade to the AP that was >> > not backwards compatible with existing SMs? >> > >> > Never. VL has always supported backward compatibility. >> > >> > Is a Lite SM the same hardware as a regular SM? >> > >> > We have no such animal. We have real VL CPE (rev E 3mbps version) for >> > only $285/ea (all inclusive) under the AlvarionCOMNET program (that's >> > with >> > a 25/CPE per quarter commitment). >> > >> > Can lite SMs be purchased individually? >> > >> > All CPE can be bought individually or in packs. >> > >> > What is the benefit to using a SM other than the lite? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > Can a non-advantage AP be software upgraded to Advantage? >> > >> > N/A. But we do offer a limited association AU (designed for rural >> > markets). It can be upgraded to a full AU. >> > >> > >> > What is the voltage pin out on Canopy equipment for PoE, is positive >> > on >> > pins 7 and 8 or 4 and 5? >> > I'm not an engineer (or sales VP either actually), but I believe it is >> > 54vDC. Off hand I'm not sure which pin, but I can found out if you >> > really >> > want to know. >> > >> > >> > What voltage range can the Canopy accept? (Min, Max) >> > >> > VL can be powered with -48vDC or AC (the IDU side - indoor unit - >> > ranges >> > from 85-265 vAC with 50-60 Hz). >> > >> > How does GPS sync work? >> > >> > VL does not need sync in our view. Our channels do not bleed near the >> > extent of certain other brands (as per a large such user tells me). We >> > also have very high capacity so we do not need the kind of re-use some >> > require on the same tower and planning between cells is fairly straight >> > forward. We also use higher end antennas (MTI) on both ends and with >> > some >> > FCC-legal 3rd party antenna options on the AU side. We also use dynamic >> > ATPC so our radios do not talk beyond their connections. >> > >> > What benefits does the CMM offer over the syncpipe? Is the satellite >> > management necessary? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > What level of tolerance is acceptable with GPS sync? Can the GPS sync >> > cable length add delay? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > How many GPS units are required for a network? Can the GPS data be >> > sent >> > via the wireless to other towers? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > If my network is GPS synced, and my competitor's network is GPS >> > synced, >> > are they in harmony or do we have to coordinate our efforts on GPS >> > sync >> > specific settings to reduce interference? >> > N/A >> > >> > >> > How do the APs handle interference? What methods to they use? >> > VLs are hugely configurable, but some of the key things are use of >> > smaller channels, tighter antennas (10 degrees on the CPE). OFDM's >> > adaptively sliding modulations, adjustments to various parameters, etc. >> > >> > >> > Is there a RF receive threshold that can be set? How fine is the >> > adjustment of this setting? Does it exist on both the AP and SM or >> > just >> > one? >> > >> > 20 - 4,032 byes (both ends) with a default of 60 for SUs and 4032 for >> > AUs. >> > What is the process of changing a channel on the AP? How do the SMs >> > know the new channel to change to? >> > >> > Simple, a few keystokes. SU's change automatically. >> > >> > Are there broadcast commands that can be sent to all SMs on an >> > particular AP? Or all SMs on the network? >> > >> > Yes and yes. >> > >> > Does the Canopy support ARQ? >> > >> > Yes, VL does ARQ. >> > >> > Explain what Transmit Frame Spreading is, what are the pros and cons? >> > N/A >> > >> > >> > Explain the 1x and 2x options, what are the pros and cons? >> > N/A >> > >> > >> > Where are the SMs authentication information (MAC, etc.) stored at? >> > AP >> > level? If an AP fails, what is involved with replacing that AP and >> > restoring the SMs? Are there any backup utilities to assist? >> > >> > MAC table. If an AU fails and the "best AU" setting is enabled the >> > CPEs >> > will automatically re-associate to the next best AU. All CPE and AUs >> > have >> > a shadow flash and different firmware can be stored on each flash, this >> > is >> > invaluable if for some reason an upgrade fails in process. We are the >> > only >> > ones with shadow flash (that I know of). AUs can also be deployed stand >> > alone or as part of a chassis system with blades. In the chassis >> > configuration supports redundant power and you can swap IDUs should an >> > IDU >> > fail. >> > >> > >> > Explain how canopy (not db) RSSI value is calculated? >> > >> > We do not do RSSI, we do SNR and it is hardcoded, but the 10 SNR LEDs >> > on >> > the CPE directly correspond to a specific SNR number. >> > >> > What exactly is the definition of Jitter? Explain how jitter is >> > calculated? >> > >> > Jitter is just not something that we have to deal with in VL except >> > with >> > respect to VoIP and other real time sensitive apps. Our VoIP jitter >> > using >> > WLP is under 3ms. A good definition though can be found via this link: >> > http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci213534,00. html. >> > Discussion of jitter is not in the manual and I have never heard it >> > discussed among VL users in any forums. I believe it is a non-issue on >> > the >> > data side. >> > >> > >> > Explain how the test link function works, why is it disruptive to the >> > entire AP? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > What must be changed from default values on an SM to begin the survey >> > process? >> > >> > N/A. Nothing, on AU or SU end. Once the survey is over the system will >> > revert to its previous configuration. >> > >> > What is the suggested method of validating a new installation - what >> > parameters should be measured? >> > Again, I am not an engineer, but you'd certainly want to validate the >> > quality of the link relative to the pre-installed expectation, so you >> > really just need to pass traffic via your preferred test method >> > (chariot, >> > etc.). If the quality is not as expected, then you delve into looking >> > at >> > the myriad of counters. Of course, if you are tagging for VLANs you >> > need >> > to validate, as you would anytime you affect any specific setting. >> > Beyond >> > that, I'd defer to my engineers. >> > >> > How often is firmware updated? What is the method of upgrading >> > firmware? >> > >> > Periodically when we can come up some major new thing or per market >> > request. In addition, if needed we provide timely bug fixes to issues >> > found by customers after we can repeat and fix. All upgrades are just a >> > few key strokes and can be down network wide, sector wide or specific >> > set >> > of SUs, all with a few keystrokes. Of course, as mentioned before we >> > have >> > shadow flash. >> > >> > How long is the product's warranty, when does that warranty begin, how >> > is this proven? >> > >> > One year, usually from the date it ships from our warehouse, but in >> > recognition of the channel reality, we also have a grace period >> > (flexible). >> > How is the RMA process handled? What is the return time? Whom do I >> > RMA >> > to? >> > >> > RMAs are processed directly. One VAR is able to process his own I >> > think. >> > It is initiated by online opening of a trouble ticket. It is generally >> > a >> > two-stage process (unless we know the user is highly advanced, where >> > the >> > 1st stage is bypassed). Once the ticket is placed we call back and talk >> > through the issue. We have found in most cases the unit is fine, but >> > the >> > operator had limited knowledge. Should it be determined a return is >> > required, we process it using a credit card number to hold as we ship >> > the >> > new unit before we receive the old unit. Since replacements come from >> > stock, exact time span depends on inventory actually, but most products >> > are commonly kept in inventory. >> > If the Prizm is management software necessary for several functions, >> > why >> > is there a charge for it? >> > >> > Our BreezeCONFIG comes with the units and (I'm told) does the things >> > that >> > some brands force payment for, as does other advanced tools. By the way >> > AES is also standard and is hardware embedded so there is no major >> > performance sacrifice to implement it. >> > >> > >> > If the Prizm software crashes, do SMs lose their license for the >> > duration of the outage? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > Can the Prizm software only allocate licenses on certain APs with >> > licenses? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > Why are floating licenses sold instead of just unlocking the unit's >> > full >> > capabilities? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > What is real-world throughput on a lite 2mb/s floating license? Is >> > that >> > aggregate? Can that burst higher? >> > >> > In our CPE, a 3mbps CPE will (all number here in ftp net) do 3mbps >> > down/2mbps up, a 6mbps CPE will do 6mbps down/4 up and the 54 is wide >> > open >> > to 32mbps should the link budget allow it. >> > >> > What is the BAM? >> > >> > Our "bandwidth allocation module" is not a separate thing. Our MIR and >> > CIR is in the firmware and does not coast extra, it is also dynamic and >> > intelligent. >> > >> > When is the WiMax equipment schedule to be delivered? >> > >> > Which band? We have been shipping some bands since 2004. Maravedis >> > (and >> > no, we don't pay them to say it) says in terms of real WiMAX >> > deployments >> > we have 65% market share. On Feb 14 Motorola said it had 4 WiMAX signed >> > contracts and 23 trials. We have 140 commercial deployments and over >> > 200 >> > other trials as of the end of 2006. The delivery time for UL WiMAX is >> > still not firm, due to complex issues (UL WiMAX may get hosed by other >> > UL >> > until the mechanism being developed in the IEEE 802.16h task group can >> > be >> > ratified and implemented. We chair this TG. Also, the UL WiMAX profile >> > that was developed by the WiMAX Forum is ONLY for 5.725-5.850 GHz, not >> > 5.3 >> > or 5.4. That's a problem. Also the profile is only 802.16d and not >> > 802.16e >> > and that's a bigger problem since the entire weight of the WiMAX >> > ecosystem >> > is being crafted around 16e. So there are things to sort out. I can >> > explain further. We are charter members of the WiMAX Forum and we are >> > number two in executive rank there (under Intel). >> > >> > Will the current SMs be compatible with the new WiMax stuff? How will >> > this be possible? >> > >> > When it finally happens, they will not be able to connect to the same >> > sectors. Don't believe anyone that says they will.unless they remind >> > you >> > it also means a truck roll, which is something all can say. I'm from >> > Missouri on this one and we know WiMAX best (not a boast, just a fact >> > of >> > the market). >> > >> > Can Advantage APs be software/hardware upgraded to the future WiMax? >> > >> > No. >> > >> > What are the main 5.7GHz types of SMs? >> > 5700, 5750, 5760 >> > >> > 3 meg/1 MAC, 6meg/full bridge. 54meg/full bridge - all with integrated >> > antennas (currently 21dBi MTI panel). We also have an "E" model with an >> > N-type connector for support of an external antenna; these are all >> > 54meg >> > full bridges. The hardware rev E version, beginning to ship now (and >> > yes, >> > they live with the others) has a slightly wider antenna (20dBi I think) >> > and support H or V pol mounting. >> > >> > >> > Can a 5700 SM be software upgraded to a 5750 SM? >> > >> > N/A >> > >> > Do you have any Canopy end-users I can contact telephonically to >> > discuss >> > the advantages of Canopy over Trango? >> > >> > Any day. If you want I can make e-mail intros, and I'm talking about >> > users who have done both or might even be large Canopy users now. >> > >> > What other third party products can you tell me about? >> > >> > VL does not need things like Stingers (very nicely done though by >> > Chuck's >> > people at Beehive) or the Cyclone by the Last Mile guys (nice too). The >> > VL >> > already does the things natively (i.e. the line did not have "holes" >> > that >> > 3rd parties had to fill). >> > >> > Does Canopy support OFDM? >> > >> > VL is the market's first UL PMP OFDM product, originally launched in >> > 2002. It remains the most deployed in the world among UL OFDM products. >> > >> > Is there a way to force the SM to stay at a certain power level? >> > >> > We use ATPC (Moto does enable forced TPC). ATPC an also be disabled on >> > ours (though you rarely would). >> > >> > Does the SM and AP's handle PPPoE traffic? >> > >> > We can enable or disable. From the manual: The PPPoE Broadcast >> > Override >> > Filter option enables or disables the broadcasting of PPPoE (Point to >> > Point Protocol over Ethernet) messages. Even if according to the >> > selected >> > option in the Filter Options parameter, broadcast messages should be >> > filtered, PPPoE broadcasts are transmitted if this parameter is set to >> > Enable. We have the following options: Disable - PPPoE Broadcast >> > messages >> > are filtered or transmitted according to the general filtering criteria >> > in >> > the Filter Options parameter. OR: Enable - PPPoE Broadcast messages are >> > transmitted regardless of the selected value of the Filter Options >> > parameter. >> > >> > Do the SM and AP allow for firmware to be downgraded if necessary? >> > >> > Yes. >> > >> > Does Canopy have any plans to implement MPLS? >> > >> > Not yet. We do pass jumbo frame sizes (for some reason I think this is >> > important with MPLS?) >> > >> > How can we monitor the SNR (Live readout of noise level)? >> > >> > By physically looking at the LEDs or via telnet or SNMP. >> > >> > Are there any utility's or built in tools that the AP or SM have for >> > troubleshooting? >> > >> > BreezeCONFIG has exhaustive trouble shooting means. New users from >> > other >> > brands are usually blown away (again, you can talk to some) >> > >> > >> > Do the SM and AP have a log that we can see information about >> > interfaces >> > and traffic? >> > >> > There's a question I do not know the answer to, but I can find out. >> > Obviously not like a packet shaper though. >> > >> > >> > Is the throughput at the SM level effected by the RSSI value? >> > >> > This is true of all wireless products - it is not a brand question and >> > the answer is "Yes." >> > >> > Is the throughput at the SM level effected by distance? >> > >> > Same as above. >> > >> > >> > Yea, that's it for now! (: >> > >> > Whew, that took a while. But it was a good exercise for me >> > anyway. I'm happy to say I could answer most without looking at the >> > manual. Not bad for a non-tech. >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > >> > Patrick >> > >> > >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> >This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> >PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> >computer >> >viruses(190). >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> > >> > >> > >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> >This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> >PineApp >> >Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer >> >viruses(42). >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> > >> > >> > >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> >This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> >PineApp >> >Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer >> >viruses(84). >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> >This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> >PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> >computer >> >viruses. >> >*********************************************************************** ************* >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> -- >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -- > Lonnie Nunweiler > Valemount Networks Corporation > http://www.star-os.com/ > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ************************************************************************ ************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). ************************************************************************ ************ ************************************************************************ ************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). ************************************************************************ ************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
