Stephen,
Excellent post.
I agree that every product has it's place.
The industry is lucky to have so many options to choose from. The negative
side is the options are often still expensive (perception of expense is
relative :-)
The reasons, is vendors put a value on their product based on the worst case
special unique need a customer might have for the product, instead of
looking at how the product can compete with other technologies in the space,
and price it to work for every case. Meaning going for Profit margin, not
volume. I think its because leading edge vendors are underfinanced as well.
MMW is still averaging > 11-35K for short links, and Long range License
around 20K, which puts them outside of the budget for the majority of the
potential applications, although the price can easilly be justified for 10%
of the potential applications. I can give an example, of I just recently
finished some engineering for about a half mil worth of MMW links, and my
conclusion was I could buy Fiber for an over all lower cost than the MMW
gear, so why go wireless? What I found surprizing is that when push came to
shove, when I put the money on the table, Lendors and Vendors weren't yet
willing to drop the price to compete with Fiber Deployment /Dark Fiber
costs. (Based on planned deployment which was not time sensitive). Take
away the "now" benefit of Time to Market that wireless offered, and it
wasn;t a winner, yet. But still MMW works for many that don't have the
fiber available to their locations.
I think the race this next year is going to be about how low they
(non-fiber) vendors can go. In 2006, Proxim set the bar (Like Trango did
for Unlicenced 6 years ago), by putting Short range GB wireless (< 1/2mile)
on the table for $10K a link, about what Free-Space Optics was until then.
(Some argue its Bridgewave that set that price, by releasing a far superior
product to generate competitive preasure). This year we are going to see who
is going to be the first to be the "Cogent" of Wireless gear
manufacturering. Short Range GB, needs to come down, Lease payments closer
to Local Loop Costs ($80 /month), and Longer range shots need to come down
below Dark Fiber Costs (sub $500 /mon.).
I have to say currently there is little demand to lower the short range
cost, because their isnl;t a lower cost long range solution yet. But when
the lower cost Long range product comes, the demand for lower cost short
range will skyrocket. The BEST thing a MMW product vendor could do
strategically, is LOWER the price on LONG RANGE links, to enable carriers to
have fast Backhauls, so that they can support buying a HUGE number of Fast
Short Range Local Loop MMW products.
Most argue that MMW is superior to Laser, if obtained at the same cost.
(although I'm sure their are arguements that may differ that opinion, in
more controlled climates). It will be interesting to see what Happens in
laser technology.... If they are the first to bring GB to the masses
(cheaper), sub $5000 range, or if the product just loses significant market
share as MMW drops in price, and it will. I'd argue that Laser technology
most likely is more cost effective to make nowadays, with years of the R&D
behind it already.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Patrick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] PtP pricing
Dear all,
We're an FSO vendor - as well as our other radio and micrwoave products.
Actually I feel we should pitch in on the LEDs vs lasers - a topic we know
very well:
- LEDs are limited in power and bandwidth (more than 50Mbps at reasonable
power is a real problem for the raw LED devices)
- LEDs fade with lifetime, and there is no closed-loop control to
compensate
this
- LEDs don't collimate into very nice beams
- LEDs generally are at 975nm which is the same as some laser products
(such
as our 980nm Access series)
980nm transmits better at long distances than shorter wavelengths, but at
short distances there is no disadvantage with short wavelengths
- LEDs are cheaper devices than laser, which is actually the only reason
they are used.
There is no advantage of LEDs with dust, except in the case of a few
vendors
that have narrow-aperture laser systems (avoid those: known to cause
problems).
We have LED technology and only use it for very short (a few feet)
customised and indoor links. For outdoor links, use laser, it's far
better.
Using Laser we have achieved "better than 5 nines" for some operators even
in foggy areas like London, on sub-kilometer links.
For one network operator (broadband ISP) they have under 15 seconds
downtime
over 7 years - 155Mbps sub-kilometer links - which rather proves the
point.
Though we have long distance laser installations at 4km+, those require
relatively clear conditions, or RF resilient path.
Generally, below 1km (say, 3/4 a mile) laser is absolutely a great
solution.
In the USA, our lasers are deployed with cell carriers like Nextel, for
example, for backhaul from base stations on similar short hops.
Elsewhere in the world we have several hundred lasers for individual cell
carriers where microwave was considered too expensive.
Equipment reliability, vendors differ enormously - caveat emptor. We have
installations back to 1997 still in service, so we're good on that score.
Some features like peltier cooling (solid state TEC) radically improves
lifetime, as laser lifetime drops off with temperature.
Automatic Transmit Power Control (ATPC) increases TX power in fade
conditions, and reduces in clear weather, improving availability and
lifetime.
Power supplies generally mounted indoors and DC run to the laser units;
though it is possible to put PSUs in roof/tower locations.
Generally, our customers "fit and forget" and just as you say, walk away
and
leave them running. Software NMS tells you the links are solid and
working.
Laser certainly has it's place: you get no inteference and high 100Mbps
and
true Gigabit Ethernet throughput.
For short links, laser is currently cheaper than E-band MMW and (assuming
a
good product) no less reliable.
For the longer links, OFDM radios and licensed microwave (we make/sell
them
too) are the best options.
</sales pitch>
Anyone who wants information or some real-world case studies, please don't
hesitate to ask - we have many, including WISPs.
Questions/comments welcome -
Best regards
Stephen Patrick
CableFree Solutions
www.cablefreesolutions.com
[mail sent in text format: advance apologies if it arrives in HTML, our
ISP/mail server is the culprit when this happens]
-----Original Message-----
From: George Rogato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 March 2007 08:06
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP pricing
Whats the reliability factor?
I've been thinking of adding fso for a couple links now for a couple
years.
Now I could put 100megs duplex to use rather than waste the spectrum.
But how well does this stuff stand up?
Haven't heard much about anyones experiences good or bad.
is it 6 9's?
does the power supplies burn out or the units need to be repaired often?
Or are they switch em on and walk a way for a few years?
George
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
Hard to beat orthogon!
And for a link that short I'd look REALLY hard at fso gear.
http://www.plaintree.com/
Plaintree has some cool infrared systems. They handle dust and such
better than lasers.
If you want laser systems, EC has some that are pretty cool too. Not
too expensive either.
marlon
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP pricing
Non set budget.
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
what's the budget?
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: [WISPA] PtP pricing
I need a couple very short range PtP links. A few hundred feet at
most for each one. Something that did close to 50 or even 100 megs
duplex would be good
Has anyone worked with Free Space Optics and can advice?
Also looking to be frugal. But don't want 5 gig.
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