There is some degree of control used by at least some laptops. All 3 times I ever tried to switch mini-pci wireless cards in a laptop to something else, the computer refused to even POST, giving a BIOS error that an unsupported wireless card was installed. This was on IBM, Compaq, and Dell.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Then why can I purchase a Netgear PCI card for my Dell desktop? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn DiPietro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble > Mike, > > That post was looking for clarification on whether or not it was > possible > it would make this legal without going through system certification as an > intentional radiator. Since the FCC wording can be mind boggling sometimes > there is confusion. In other words you cannot take certified parts and use > them together and expect to be legal no matter how anyone tries to justify > it. I am glad to see that you do understand. ;-) > > Regards, > Dawn DiPietro > > > > > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> I understood that was the way it was until perhaps yesterday when >> someone >> brought up the issue of PC's with add in wireless cards being in no way >> different than what we do. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn DiPietro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble >> >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> What Marlon said IS NOT OPINION. The only way you can be legal is to >>> certify a system as a whole. You might want to take a look at the ADI >>> link I posted and maybe this will help you understand what is required >>> to become certified. You must have all the components certified >>> together. >>> >>> Is it that I keep misunderstanding what you are trying to say? But I >>> feel like this has been discussed before in no uncertain terms. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Dawn DiPietro >>> >>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>>> So you're saying (in your opinion, not necessarily any bearing on >>>> what >>>> the FCC actually requires) when we have certified SBCs, we'd be able to >>>> go that route? Those that are running a certified radio with no amp >>>> (who uses that garbage anymore) into an antenna with equal or lower >>>> gain on a PC based system run a good chance of being legal? >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon K. Schafer" >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble >>>> >>>> >>>>> It works like this Doug. >>>>> >>>>> A radio card is an intentional radiator. Under part 15 rules it >>>>> can >>>>> only be sold as a part of a certified system. That means if you put >>>>> the radio card in a computer and it's designed to be used in a >>>>> computer either with it's own built in antenna or the antenna build >>>>> into the computer that's ok. As long as it's CERTIFIED that way. >>>>> >>>>> If you take that same card, hook a pigtail to it and put an amp on >>>>> it. >>>>> You are out of compliance. If you put an antenna larger than the one >>>>> certified, you are out of compliance. If you put a different type of >>>>> antenna than it was certified with (yagi to grid or panel to omni >>>>> etc.) you are out of compliance. >>>>> >>>>> The thing that's screwing us all up with MT, StarOS and others >>>>> like >>>>> that is that they don't have ANY certified systems available to us. >>>>> >>>>> And, if you look on LEGAL computer boards, even though they are >>>>> UN-intentional radiators, they will have an FCC certification on them. >>>>> Many of the war board type devices don't have that FCC logo on them. >>>>> >>>>> Yes the rule is silly. Yes it's widely ignored, even by the FCC. >>>>> No, >>>>> uncertified systems don't seem to be a problem in the real world. >>>>> >>>>> However, do YOU want to take a chance on having YOUR customers go >>>>> dark >>>>> because you want to ignore the rules? Do you really want to give your >>>>> competition that much ammunition against you? >>>>> >>>>> I have the contacts, forms to fill out etc. just waiting for me to >>>>> get >>>>> the time to take this issue on as part of the FCC committee's job. We >>>>> have basically no FCC committee though. The principal membership >>>>> doesn't seem to be all that interested in anything other than whining >>>>> about the work that other people do. No one wants to step up and take >>>>> on the hard issues. >>>>> >>>>> When I get done with the CALEA work (that's costing me 2 to 4 >>>>> hours >>>>> per DAY and others are working harder than I am!!!!) I'll write up a >>>>> petition to get this certified system rule changed. Ideally I'd like >>>>> to get a real pro installer mechanism in place so that joe q public >>>>> still has to buy certified systems, but we could just buy certified >>>>> components. >>>>> >>>>> Or, if anyone would like to take this issue on, I've got a bit of >>>>> a >>>>> road map and some basic language worked out already :-). >>>>> >>>>> In the mean time, run an honest legal business as much as you >>>>> possibly >>>>> can. >>>>> >>>>> laters, >>>>> marlon >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Ratcliffe" >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:27 PM >>>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] MT Babble >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> But the base product, the "computer" does not start life as an >>>>>> intentional >>>>>> radiator. So at what point does a FCC certified computer become an >>>>>> intentional radiator as a whole? >>>>>> >>>>>> When you add a wireless card? That would land Dell, HP and >>>>>> Compaq in >>>>>> a load >>>>>> of trouble. But alas, is a FCC certified Netgear card, any different >>>>>> than >>>>>> an FCC certified Ubiquiti card when used with the certified antennas? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm NOT talking about marketing these as products as a vendor, >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> talking >>>>>> about USING these computers, with wireless cards installed in them >>>>>> after the >>>>>> sale. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't see how page 78 and on reference a computer becoming an >>>>>> intentional >>>>>> radiator? At the beginning of the day, you have a motherboard and >>>>>> power >>>>>> supply, which become a "Personal Computer". At the end of the day, >>>>>> you add >>>>>> a wireless card and antenna which makes it what then? >>>>>> >>>>>> Calling a Cisco Aironet a PC or vice versa doesn't make sense. >>>>>> Cisco Aironet=Intentional Radiator, PC=Unintentional Radiator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro >>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 7:10 PM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam, >>>>>> >>>>>> Since some here feel I have no credibility because I no longer >>>>>> run a WISP I will let you decide from this information provided. >>>>>> >>>>>> Starting on page 78 of the following link should explain why the >>>>>> wireless devices in question cannot be certified as computers. >>>>>> http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-2-16-06.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Dawn DiPietro >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam Tetherow wrote: >>>>>>> I think the question that really hasn't been answered is if a RB >>>>>>> can be certified class B and then use a certified radio/antenna >>>>>>> combo as is allowed with a PC/laptop. And you are right that >>>>>>> then FCC makes the rules. What is not clear is >>>>>>> that Dawn's (and others) position that the component rules can not >>>>>>> apply to an RB or other SBC. The only people that can clarify this >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the FCC. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for FCC certification in general, I think there are two major >>>>>>> factors that come into play with uncertified gear. There are >>>>>>> several that deployed the equipment under the false impression >>>>>>> that it was legal because they complied with the EIRP rules (and >>>>>>> many still persist in this belief). >>>>>>> The other is the simple fact that no one has been fined, to my >>>>>>> knowledge, for using uncertified gear. There have been instances of >>>>>>> people that have been fined for using over EIRP and unauthorized use >>>>>>> of licensed bands. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the FCC has not fined for the behavior yet and has made >>>>>>> unofficial >>>>>>> statements to the effect that they are more worried about EIRP and >>>>>>> 477, it comes as no surprise that people will not follow the law. >>>>>>> As >>>>>>> you pointed out most people regularly break the speed limit, which >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a law with an associated fine but they continue to do so because the >>>>>>> fine is not large enough or incurred often enough to make it an >>>>>>> effective deterrent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sam Tetherow >>>>>>> Sandhills Wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matt Liotta wrote: >>>>>>>> This has become a ridiculous thread. Dawn's customer experience >>>>>>>> is irrelevant in this case. Plenty of operators who have lots >>>>>>>> of customers (including me) understand and agree with the >>>>>>>> position presented. Don't kill the messenger! The FCC makes the >>>>>>>> rules; not Dawn or me or any of the other folks who have made >>>>>>>> accurate statements regarding certification. Use of certified >>>>>>>> equipment is required by law. Many people break laws for a >>>>>>>> variety of reasons, but that doesn't change the law. For >>>>>>>> example, everyday I drive over the speed limit and occasionally >>>>>>>> I am fined for doing so. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Matt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/836 - Release Date: >>>>>> 6/6/2007 >>>>>> 1:10 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
