> RG8 on 5.8 GHz? That was the start of the thread. > AT&T long lines high cap availability spec. That is how I define WORK. > > 200 foot tower at 6 GHz or above. That is how I define "any distance at > all". > You think you can get 20 dB of fade margin at 5.8 GHz using any amount of > RG8 in the mix? > Nope, never gonna work. Can't hardly get that much fade margin on > unlicensed gear with zero coax. > > RG8 Sux > 200 foot tower with licensed 6 GHz or higher microwave at the base, you > gotta run the waveguide. > Else, never gonna WORK. > (I guess whimsy and hyperbole doesn't email well at all). > > And transmission line loss really truly does add DIRECTLY to the noise > figure. > (Sorry uneducated folks, I really do think y'all can take it). > > (BTW, I originally suggested LMR 900 but added the waveguide data for > those tough situations, sorry to have confused folks) > > Gheeze Bob lighten up or grow a thicker skin or something. You were the > one that puffed out the chest with your 500 customers you were going to > have to tear down and my obvious lack of experience. I was simply trying > to lighten the mood. Thus the parenthetical statement. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" > <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:04 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables > > >> Dude >> >> That is not what I was commenting on. You made the following blanket >> statement regarding radio links and waveguide: >> >>>If you have any distance at all to go, and you want it to work, you have >>> no >>> choice. >> >> That is the statement YOU made with your 5 million years of experience. >> THAT >> statement could not be father from the truth. There are other choices and >> they are more cost effective. >> >> THAT was the statement that would seriously confuse the less educated >> population regarding the wireless/RF part of the WISP installation. And >> when >> I talk about "less educated" I don't mean someone is stupid. I mean they >> do >> not have or have a very limited knowledge base regarding RF and read this >> list for information. For anyone that doesn't know better they could >> think >> the only way they can make a link work is to use eliptical waveguide. And >> that is incorrect. >> >> There are tens of thousands of links running on Heliax/LMR cable and I am >> NOT talking IF freq here. I'm talking RF out to the antenna. >> >> And BTW.....My theory of "WORK" is it does what it is advertised to do >> with >> 20 dB of fade regardless of freq band. >> >> Puff and Grunt all you want......You're wrong. :-P >> >> -B- >> >> >> On 8/20/08 10:48 AM, "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> For a passive device, (like a transmission line) the noise figure is >>> equal >>> to its attenuation. >>> Sorry for confusing all you less educated people. I guess this isn't >>> the >>> forum for answers that actually hold up to scutiny. >>> >>> [puffs out chest and grunts] >>> >>> (I guess my 5000 "carrier grade links" and my 500 miles of licensed >>> microwave and my 30 years of doing this doesn't count as experience). >>> Sheesh... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:19 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables >>> >>> >>>> I guess I need to go back to all my customers and remove their >>>> equipment >>>> >>>> IMHO the statement you made cannot be from experience. >>>> >>>> I have more than 500 carrier grade links in the air carrying IP and TDM >>>> traffic with cable runs up to 150' of 5/8 heliax without a hickup. >>>> >>>> It just depends on how its engineered. >>>> >>>> Making the statement below is incorrect and only confuses the less >>>> educated population on this list >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >>>> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:00:51 >>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables >>>> >>>> >>>> If you have any distance at all to go, and you want it to work, you >>>> have >>>> no >>>> choice. >>>> Transmission line loss adds DIRECTLY to receiver noise figure. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:23 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables >>>> >>>> >>>>> Eliptical waeguide is also $13 a foot, connectors are over $200 each, >>>>> you >>>>> need a bunch of special hardware to hang it and a dehydrator or >>>>> nitrogen >>>>> system to keep it dry. >>>>> >>>>> I just don't picture the WRAP board group buying waveguide >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:49:24 >>>>> To: WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Elliptical waveguide will lose 3 dB in 250 feet. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Mike Brownson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:33 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> To give you the facts. You can use just about any coax you want. >>>>>> But >>>>>> you >>>>>> will have loss. The smaller the cable the higher the loss. >>>>>> >>>>>> Examples: >>>>>> RG8 lose 3 db in 17 ft >>>>>> LMR400 lose 3db in 26 ft >>>>>> LMR600 lose 3 db in 40 ft >>>>>> 1/2 heliax lose 3 db in 49 ft >>>>>> LMR900 lose 3 db in 60 ft >>>>>> 5/8 heliax lose 3 db in 64 ft >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember that for every 6dB in loss you lose half your transmit and >>>>>> receive >>>>>> range. So with 34 ft of RG 8 instead of 5 miles you get 2.5. So use >>>>>> whatever cable you can get away with and still have the performance >>>>>> you >>>>>> need. If you need every miliwatt to be useful then use coax only as >>>>>> a >>>>>> short >>>>>> jumper. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike B >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/19/08 9:45 PM, "Matt Jenkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> LMR 400? Are you crazy? Heliax 1/2 is the only way to go! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>>>>>>> It can but the loss is high and the braid is much less. Stick with >>>>>>>> LMRs >>>>>>>> 400 *,5 '22@ )+_3 "2,/(:4 32*" 4:+3( >>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: RickG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:33:57 >>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] coax cables >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm running coax down my tower and came across and RG8/U. Can this >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> used on 5GHz? >>>>>>>> -RickG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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