If you look closely at the Larsonusa.com picture you will see the third 15' antenna laying down face up on the penthouse before the roof tower was built.
Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex Sure, here ya go... This is from early 2005. The installation was for an Alcatel 6GHz OC3 setup with three 15' antennas for spatial diversity. Larson & Associates facilitated the link for a company called Aspen Communications. Here is a link showing the roof shelter being lowered into place before the third 15' antenna was installed. http://www.larsonusa.com/services/site/BTRshltrlift.htm Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex Do you have any photos that would show this type of mount. Could you share a few with us? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex Have to disagree. The thing I hate about antennas (and equipment) that are NOT like RadioWaves is they don't fit on the larger pipes. Something tells me RadioWaves makes their brackets they way they do for a reason. Use the right diameter pipe and preferably schedule 40 or even better yet schedule 80 thickness and you'll never need to revisit an installation due to movement. Stabilizer bars are recommended on 4' antennas and included with 6' and larger antennas. Use them whenever recommended...you'll be much more happy long term. Large pipes are not only useful for large antennas, but also beneficial for small antennas in the millimeter bands. The mounts we used for the last BridgeWave AR80X-AES link we installed were 4" diameter and weighed a hundred or more pounds each. The "X" in AR80X means 2' antennas...by no means large antennas, but 80GHz can be sensitive to movement. We made sure there is no movement due to our mounts. <grin> Yes, you can even mount a 15' antenna to a tower with 2" legs, but the antenna will still be attached to a 4" or larger pipe as it should. The larger pipe is then attached at several points to the 2" tower legs with cross members and tiebacks. Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex The only thing I do NOT like about the Radiowave dishes are.... The mounts are designed for 4" pole. We usually mount to 3" pole, based on weight, availabilty, and ease to work with. It can be mounted securely to 2-3/8" pole, if lots of washers are used. Mounting to 2" pole, doesn't really work. In an ideal world, it can be argued that for 3ft dishes, that 3" pole is the minimal size viable to keep it stable enough and prevent pivot windload. But if the only option is to mount to a 2" dia member, its the facts. Often to use these mounts on 2" pole, installers will use an intermediate, pole to pole mount, and mount a 4" pole to the 2" tower member pole. But its a pain in the neck to do that and much heavier to hoist, and the antenna is still vulnerable to the weakest link, the 2" tower member. Or they Shim the Ubolts with a third pipe The problem is that many Towers have only 2" dia members at the > 200ft heights. Unlike a freestanding mast fastened on one side only, a 2" dia tower member is usually strong enough for the large antenna. What I'd like to see is an adapter made, that will adapt the 4" design mount to support 2" pole. This would be accomplished by a metal bracket that the 4" Ubolts would be inserted through, prior to sliding through the mount holes. I'd have much more confidence in that, than 2 inches deep of washers. Note: this is not a disadvantage of Trango, I see this problem with most all large antenna mounts, designed for mission critical 4" pole mount. Some other vendors have a hole/bracket on the mount, that allowed a cross member from it, so a bar could be extended off to the side, to help stablize it, where only 2" pole was available. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Belton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex > "One thing I did like, the handles on the ODU of the Giga. Made aligning > 3ft dishes a bit easier..." > > Wow, just noticed this comment and felt this should be addressed. > > The handles should not be used for alignment as the ODU is attached to the > antenna - suspended with relatively light duty hardware. This hardware is > only designed to support the ODU and not intended to be used to move the > entire antenna assembly. This is also true with Ceragon, PCOM, DMC and > Bridgewave to be sure. > > The PCOM 38GHz ODUs do have a sort of bump stop built-in that will make > contact before the ODU is pivoted and eventually forced off, but still the > ODU is never to be used as a handle to align with. Always use the > built-in > alignment mechanism in the antenna mount and never the ODU itself > > > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 12:42 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex > > "I don't understand why Trango did that... my really old PCom links had > the > waveguide built onto the dish..." > > One reason. Cost. Trango is able to use the same ODU housing for all > their > supported freq bands by simply making the waveguide adapter modular. > > The early Giga radios shipped the waveguide adapters with screws & lock > washers. I was concerned this left too little screw thread available and > opted to leave the washers off. Now the waveguide adapters come with > screws > and instead of the lock washer they have a rubber ring. > > While still leaving too little thread IMO, we have never striped one out. > It is possible your tech tried to tighten one screw all the way down > rather > than tightening the screws in an equal pattern similar to the way you > would > tighten lug nuts on a wheel. > > I remember emailing Trango and recommending they have their waveguide > manufacturer mill out a little more material from the screw seat to allow > the screw to thread more fully into the ODU housing. Not sure if that has > been done or if it is in the making. > > I agree the LED display is gimmicky and prefer a BNC port, but does work > ok > if you have the align mode on. Without the align mode the LED display is > pretty useless. We have found it is also not a good idea to be running > link > or rssi commands from the console while aligning the antennas. Doing so > will slow or diminish the accuracy of the LED readings. > > > Brad > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:00 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex > > One more quick rant... those waveguide pieces SUCK. They caused many > problems (screws on them stripping out, or some tech installing them the > wrong way before it was sent up the tower and installed so I when we went > to > align them it wouldn't work because the waveguide was twisted 90 > degrees...) > > I don't understand why Trango did that... my really old PCom links had the > waveguide built onto the dish... > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:43 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Apex > > Tom, > > Quick question, then my response... do all Apex's ship with the fiber port > in them? > > I really have to bite my tounge... I don't want to get into what all > happened (basically I don't want my thoughts made public and the customer > I > was working for to read them) but I was not impressed at all with the > Trango > Giga product... I just helped install nine links last week. All I did was > install and configure the radios, so yes they said 256QAM at 3xx Meg... > but > I didn't get to test it with live data, etc. > > What I will say, the alignment LED is a gimmick. Give me a BNC connector > hooked up to a voltmeter any day. First my voltmeter is going to read to > decimals, which is very helpful aligning long links. Second, the LED is > about worthless if the sun is shining on it, you have to cover it with > your > hands to read the numbers which was difficult on at least one link I was > aligning. Third, positioning on some towers to align the link made > reading > the LED difficult. None of these issues are problems with my voltmeter, I > simply just use a strip of electrical tape and tape it to the ODU where I > want. > > One thing I did like, the handles on the ODU of the Giga. Made aligning > 3ft > dishes a bit easier... > > With all of that said, what is the price on the Apex now that the summer > special is long over? Before jumping for Trango, I would encourage anyone > to show me a current quote and to see if I can match it with Dragonwave... > from what I understand I can come damn close :-) > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:38 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Trango Apex > > Not sure how many of you have tried the new Trango Apexes yet, but I > thought > > I'd share my recent experience.... > > OK.... 366mbps, 256QAM, Cost me much less than I was expecting. And.... it > just freakin Worked! > WooHoo! Man, I like this radio. > > I specificaly liked the fact that the all outdoor unit, comes with 3 > ports, > 1 fiber, 1 GigE, 1 out-of-band managemnet, and supports inband management > on > > the GigE. > What I thought was unique was that either of the two Ethernet ports could > be > > used to provide the POE power input. And also optionally can just run > stanrdard Electrical wire to the Molex connector instead if prefer. But I > was extremely impressed at the flexibilty in options to install this. The > alignment LED is also awesome, that is positioned in a convenient place > and > shows actual RSSI DB number, as it really speeds up install and made it > possible for one person to accurately align it. > > Also note... The older Giga had some anoying firmware bugs last year in > their Betas (typical of Beta), and I finally got around to upgrading to > the > latest firmwares. (I was 9 months overdue for the task) Guess what... All > the problems are FIXED!! Atleast the ones I knew about. I was really > pleased. I have to say this product line is REALLY coming along nicely. > > Only thing I caution to be aware of is.... It takes a while to fully > understand the relationship of how well your link is performing in > relation > to what the MSE value of the radio is. MSE is the equivellent of > measurement of SNR and distortion. And the ATPC and Adaptive Modulation > thresholds are based on specific MSEs reached. The MSE feature/meter works > good and accurately, it was just an issue of understanding how to > interperate it. > > I was also impreseed on how fast they associate when they are taking out > of > opmode and back on in opmode. Its super quick. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:45 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays? > > >> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: >> >>>I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a "value" >>>decision. If there was an AP that would deliver 100Mbps and could >>>support 1000 subscribers, I would be willing to pay $10,000+ for it >>>today. There is a real "gap" in the products that are available on >>>the market: >> >> I don't disagree with your assessment of the current product matrix. >> I don't even assume that ALL WISPs are "cheap". I am not sure I >> would say that even MOST of them are cheap. But enough of them are >> that the middle of the road products you want are missing in action. >> >>>Next = Mikrotik >>>Next = Trango, Canopy, etc >> >> Since they have fixed their wireless, I'd put MT in the same class >> as Trango and Canopy. >> >>>So, again, why hasn't there been an evolution of products the last >>>2-3 years? Did everyone stop normal R&D to focus on WiMax? >> >> I have an opinion (which I stated in rant form) about what happened >> to the R&D. The Canopy line (which is a very nice radio) is a good >> example. Motorola has delivered a product that just works. It is >> expensive compared to other products sold to the same "marketplace", >> but it is NOT expensive for what it delivers. Better, yet, they are >> working to make a new product line that will improve upon what is >> available today. But their primary market isn't the "normal" WISP. >> They service companies that are better funded, which typically means >> larger WISPs, cable companies and telcos. >> >> I really hope I didn't offend anyone with my rant. It wasn't >> intended to do that. I really just wish our industry as a whole >> would get out of the hole that we have dug with the "cheaper is >> better" mindframe. >> >> -- >> ******************************************************************** >> * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* >> * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * >> * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * >> * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * >> ******************************************************************** >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> WISPA Wants You! 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