I'm just saying that if the telephone companies have
a big requirement for tracking batteries, expect that this industry
will get that level of attention soon. With all the stimulus money I
would not be surprised if those requirements aren't already part of the
grant compliance. Sure a small guy can exchange car or deep cycle
batteries now at the parts store, I just would not expect that
simplicity to last forever. Just pointing out that large battery
systems will at some point have an additional liability to consider in
the total cost of operation and ownership.
Josh Luthman wrote:
Uhm...exchange them for 15 bucks off a new one...
On 8/3/09, Brian Webster <bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote:
And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer
functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and
chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this
industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long
:-)
Thank You,
Brian Webster
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Patrick,
In general, sounds like good advice.
To clarify our intent, in posting.....
>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to....
1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered
generator,
in longer lasting Emergencies.
(We have a couple hot spare generators)
Why are we changing our view point?
1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka
Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to
get
to multiple locations at once with generators.
Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end
of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and
not
necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course
still
keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle
than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
needed.
We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,
so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management
would
have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned
about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
tank after use?
I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount
on
ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet
the
requirements of code and property managers.
For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
their tenants for phone systems, etc.
Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com
Tom DeReggi wrote:
While on the topic of generators.....
Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
Multi-tenant buildings.
Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed
on
roofs, for fire safety reasons.
Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain
generators.
What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get
installed
in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?
If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get
re-fueled easilly?
Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new
tanks
swapped (like a gas grill).?
Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, and run
AC
wire up to the roof level?
Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside
parking
garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage?
Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to
where
the tanks can be placed?
I'm sure some of this is in local building code. And I can probably
best
guess some of the answers for above.
But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the
lowest
dollar cost.?
I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very affordable.
Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Richardson" <jrichard...@aircloud.com>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Thank you,
That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a
UPS.
A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less and
be
far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @
24VDC.
Thanks again
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Garrett
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat and
burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can be
REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
conditions.
Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. (1955
Model)
The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. Everything
is
adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
starting and get it fixed.
Jerry Richardson wrote:
We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it
does
not start reliably.
Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to
power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
Thanks
__________________________________
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications
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