I knew I could count on Tom to reply with some good advise! I totally agree and fully intend on pushing in that direction. I'm just looking for alternative ideas in case I cant get the mayor to see things my way. Thanks! -RickG
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Tom DeReggi<wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net> wrote: > All I can say is, Bandwidth is cheap, labor and time aren't. > The problem is cheap equipment is expensive to maintain, and expensive > equipment is cheap to maintain. > Again, if not in control of the installation, design, and equipment > selection, is it worth teh liabilty to flat rate a cost, to guarantee > someone else's choices? > Then you need to ask, what type and level of support is going to be > expected? > End user connecting and speed troubleshooting? Or fixing APs when they > break? > At the end of the day.... the best option is to convinece the tower owner to > just give you the tower space free, and you do your thing as a commercial > organization, and because your access to the tower will be free, you'll be > able to offer more cost effective service to the subscribers via a discount > of some sort. Or give a loss leader free service. For example 384k free, > paid access for 2mbp, etc. > > If they still want to offer it to the public for free, and be in control of > it.... Thdn you do it like Staff posiitioning. > I can give you a Network engineer for $50k/year, and you have can have him > for 40 hrs pper week, or I can give you a network engineer for 20 hrs per > week at $30k per year, etc. > If you demand better support, we'll add techs, etc.. If there is low usage, > you'll downgrade the number of hours needed. > > Or if out sources, thats $2 per month per user. So 1500 people time.= > $3000/mon or $36000 per year. > > Then you can get realistic about how many people will really be able to be > served.... closer to 100? :-) > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RickG" <rgunder...@gmail.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:11 AM > Subject: [WISPA] Muni Broadband - Was: On-line back-up > > > Your post reminded me of a current situation I have. Basically, I was > slated to get the rights to a couple of water tanks in a nearby town. > Recently, the major told me that he was going to provide FREE > wireless access to his city (pop 1502). I told him it wont work unless > he hit the lotto since the support costs will eat him up. So, he asked > me what I would charge the city to maintain his wireless network. So, > the question is: is anyone here doing this and what kind of costs > should be considered. Obviously, the support is one of the largest > costs of running a WISP. Thoughts? > -RickG > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:16 AM, jp<j...@saucer.midcoast.com> wrote: >> Back in the day, we used to pay $10000-12000 for VCR sized rackmount boxes >> to handle >> dialup users at $20/month. At $5/month, the economics are great for backup >> infrastructure, assuming a $1000 box of computer parts and hard drives can >> handle the >> same quantity of customers. >> >> It's the tech support that is tough. I can't see how to make money >> providing customer >> support from helpful and smart humans for $5/month, and backup is easily >> as confusing >> as dialup if not more so. The customer must understand concepts instead of >> memorizing >> the steps needed to get connected. >> >> We offer backup, but not that cheap. Most of our business comes from a >> computer shop >> we work with who chooses online backup for customers when appropriate. If >> you have a >> computer shop along with your WISP, you could probably do well with it. >> Otherwise, >> it's a hard sell to make people worry about their data until they lose it, >> especially >> for residential use. >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 09:22:24PM -0700, John Thomas wrote: >>> Are you willing to setup a server for their backups? >>> For home users, Mozy charges $4.95 per month. If you setup your own >>> backup server, you would have the initial expense of a server with big >>> drive space, but you could charge $4.95 and at least save money on your >>> upstream bandwidth. >>> >>> John >>> >>> Mike wrote: >>> > In my heart, I know you are right. The nature of our business is we >>> > buy bandwidth wholesale, and then resell it to others who can't >>> > afford to buy dedicated bandwidth. We factor an oversubscription >>> > rate, and count on bursty, short lived traffic from users that share >>> > the bandwidth. >>> > >>> > If I could afford to add bandwidth so everybody could maintain a 500 >>> > kbps connection for days on end, then I would. But the economics are >>> > I pay $350.00 for my first MB and $250.00 for each additional. So a >>> > person using the system for backup is utilizing a $175.00 resource >>> > for $42.40 a month; IF the back-up software only uses 500 kbps, and >>> > I've seen them surge way over that. >>> > >>> > So, two people running Mosy hog a Meg or more of a precious >>> > resource. Four of them, and they've used a couple MB or more. I'm >>> > sure you get the point. >>> > >>> > I do have a Netequalizer in place with fairness rules that will >>> > penalize those packets, because they are long duration IF and when >>> > the network gets near capacity. So, they get penalized, and grandma >>> > downloading pictures from her grand kids also gets penalized, even >>> > though her use is bursty and infrequent, just because there is not >>> > enough overhead on the pipe BECAUSE of the long duration back-up users. >>> > >>> > Without the Netequalizer, just a few of these users would bring my >>> > network to its knees. >>> > >>> > I am beginning to think Mosy and their ilk belong in the same camp as >>> > Netflix and the P2Pers. >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > At 05:51 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: >>> > >>> >> Mike wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth >>> >>> for hours on end with no compensation. >>> >>> >>> >> You are getting compensated, by your customer, so now it isn't really >>> >> your bandwidth, but theirs. The customer is paying you to transport >>> >> data, be it pictures of kittens, a HDD backup, or something else. If >>> >> the >>> >> terms of your contract are such that you can't support this usage, >>> >> then >>> >> you should probably look at changing the terms of the contract. >>> >> >>> >> However, I would think that it would be pretty easy to look at the >>> >> flows >>> >> and put throttling rules in place that limit Carbonite/Mozy/xyz >>> >> traffic >>> >> when there is congestion. >>> >> >>> >> Josh >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Josh Cheney >>> >> josh.che...@gmail.com >>> >> http://www.joshcheney.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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