Keep in mind that using plastic standoffs do not properly ground the boards/radios.
----------------------------------------------------------- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of "Learn RouterOS" -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, but no 411s. What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided tape? Does it hold in the cold? I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? Mike At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the >PoE business. > >Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but >I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back >wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >another. > >Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't >have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock >up and I couldn't determine the source. > >The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact >setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Mike" <m...@aweiowa.com> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to > >> >get > >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak > >> >times, > >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but > >> >that's > >> >not happening very often right now. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> >Behalf Of Robert West > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? > >>Just > >> >curious. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM > >> >To: WISPA General List > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of > >> >horsepower on the AP's CPU? > >> > > >> >Greg > >> >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > >> > > >> > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, > >> > > or > >> > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > >> > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've > >> > > seen a > >> > > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > >> > > > >> > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple > >> >boards > >> > > with single radios? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > > On > >> > > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > >> > > To: 'WISPA General List' > >> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > > >> > > Mark, > >> > > > >> > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the > >>strength > >> >of > >> > > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > >> > > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not > >> > > that > >> > > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had > >> > > good > >> >luck > >> > > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing > >> > > clients > >>and > >> > > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will > >> > > justify > >>3 > >> > > sectors, I would go that way though. > >> > > > >> > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our > >>salesmen > >> >to > >> > > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go > >> > > farther, > >>we > >> > > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high > >> >density > >> > > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are > >> > > well > >> > > established in our area and have most of these sites already in > >>operation. > >> > > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > >> > > > >> > > Rick Harnish > >> > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > >> On > >> > >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM > >> > >> To: WISPA General List > >> > >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> > >> > >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to > >> > >> 32 > >> > >> subs. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > >> On > >> > >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM > >> > >> To: 'WISPA General List' > >> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> > >> > >> What frequency band and polarization? > >> > >> > >> > >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the > >> > >> Omni > >> > >> to > >> > >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to > >> > >> offload > >> > >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Daniel White > >> > >> 3-dB Networks > >> > >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > >> On > >> > >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM > >> > >> To: WISPA General List > >> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> > >> > >> 9db > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > >> On > >> > >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM > >> > >> To: 'WISPA General List' > >> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> > >> > >> What size omni are you using? > >> > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >> > >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org > >> > >>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > >> On > >> > >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman > >> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM > >> > >>> To: WISPA General List > >> > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>> > >> > >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does > >> > >>> antenna design said so :) > >> > >>> > >> > >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of > >> > >> the > >> > >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy <mmce...@accubak.com> wrote: > >> > >>>> I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't > >> > >>>> really > >> > >>> want > >> > >>>> to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard > >> > >> they > >> > >>>> don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, > >> > >>>> any > >> > >>>> comments? > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> Mark > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >>> ----------- > >> > >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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