I have learned many lessons in this business. I am sure I am not alone. One is that I provide a good service. One that is worth a fair price. I used to try to do everything to get a customer. Give away equipment and many other things. That usually leads to you and the company being taken advantage of. When I started charging for most everything (bear in mind these charges are fair and by no means am I the cheapest in town) my sales actually went up.
Sent from my iPhone On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:14 PM, "Robert West" <robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote: > ATT and Time Warner. You may have heard of them. :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of John Thomas > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:28 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP > > Robert, what upstream is charging $15 per month? If that is true, I have a > portable /19 I am going to start renting...... > > John > > Robert West <robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote: > >> Depends on if you have to pay for it. Some upstreamproviders give them >> for free, others not. Some WISPS pay for their own block. Either way, >> as with everything in business, if I have to pay 15 bucks for a static >> you better believe that cost is gonna be passed on. That's a HUGE >> percentage of the cost of providing service to that customer. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias >> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >> >> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs. >> >> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All >> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for a >> consistent public IP. >> >> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it. >> >> -- >> Blake Covarrubias >> >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: >> >>> True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike" <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather let > go. >>>> Or not. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> On Behalf Of John Thomas >>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>> >>>> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I >>>> would find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month. >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> Kurt Fankhauser <k...@wavelinc.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" >>>>> according to the >>>> >>>>> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month >>>>> *grins* and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign >>>>> that static to >>>> the >>>>> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves. >>>>> >>>>> -Kurt Fankhauser >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM? >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy >>>>>> <adamkenn...@omnicity.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would >>>>>>> let me >>>> do >>>>>>> my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, >>>>>>> telnet >>>> and >>>>>>> web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every >>>>>>> port from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access >>>>>>> to anyone else. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP >>>>>>> if you are doing NAT. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Adam Kennedy >>>>>>> Network Engineer >>>>>>> Omnicity, Inc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. >>>>>>> Schafer >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM >>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been >>>>>>> told that it's a big security hole. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts on that? >>>>>>> marlon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I >>>>>>> have it marked as 4.6 with modifications (it was an unofficial >>>>>>> 4.6 they gave me) so I would say 4.7 or higher should enable Xbox >>>>>>> upnp. Even this requires a public IP on the Mikrotik to remove >>>>>>> even nice strict (I think it's called open?). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>> <k...@wavelinc.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> So does anyone here have any customers that use XBOX live and >>>>>>>> bark to you about you NAT? Apparently the XBOX live service is >>>>>>>> very picky about being behind any NAT device and its ability to >>>>>>>> make connections to other servers. >>>>>>>> From what I gathered is that the LIVE service uses Universal >>>>>>>> Plug and Play >>>>>>>> (UPnP) to get around this but the question I have is. If your >>>>>>>> doing masquerade on a Mikrotik Core Router should you enable >>>>>>>> UPnP on that device? >>>>>>>> Or should I just issue public IP's to the customer that games >>>>>>>> and let them worry about it? And if you have UPnP enabled on the >>>>>>>> core router and >>>> then >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> a double-NAT through the customers Linksys router with UPnP >>>>>>>> enable does that not work because of the double-NAT? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>> WAVELINC >>>>>>>> P.O. Box 126 >>>>>>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>>>>>>> 419-562-6405 >>>>>>>> www.wavelinc.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> ------- >>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> ------- >>>> ---- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> ------- >>>> ---- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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