OOps, I did get it backwards....LOL. In that case.... My advice for Marco would be.... Reach out to the new WISP, and make sure they know you are there, and how to contact you if needed. Engineering non-interference, is better than reacting to it, for both parties. Knowing your competitor's equipment traits, limits, and options, helps one come up with ideas to co-exist.
The one big advice I'd give the Canopy user to watch out for would be that, unlike the Canopy gear, the Ubiquiti gear will allow the operator to operate illegally if the operator configures itself to do so. In otherwords, they could install an AP with a Ubiquiti 20dbi antenna, and still set radio power up to 26db. (10 dbi over legal). If you run into a interference war and start to loose, examine whether the other WISP is operating within legal power or not. Just in case, they left radios at defaults, and forgot to set down to legal power. I'd also add that the Canopy subs might be more at risk if using the basic 8dbi 60 deg Canopy CPEs. (Please note, I probably have these CPE specs wrong, I'm only familiar with the 5.8G specs, and Mario mentioned 2.4G). The Ubiquiti platform is really cheap to add high gain CPEs. It would be worth taking a look at what subs might have CPEs with their beamwidths looking in the direction of the Ubiquiti tower 2 miles away. Its also relevent to examine the AP height of the deployments, to get an idea if the CPEs will be pointing to the sky, or horizontally. Interference may not only be a factor of AP interference. Reason is APs will be low power under 36db. But the CPE rules that allow high gain at the CPE will make the CPE transmits travel much farther at stronger strength. So, its feasible new CPEs of competitor could interfere with your CPEs. And its feasible a High gain 2.4G CPE could transmit it signal 30 miles, and have a high signal at only 2 miles. This is not a big issue with 5.3 and 5.4, because the CPE EIRP is fixed to the same as the AP. But with 2.4, it cold be an issue. ON day one that the Ubiquiti APs are installed will not tell you the amount of interference you will get. Every new Ubiquiti CPE installed could add to the interference. Its definately helps if the APs are mounted higher, so CPEs point up. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappydsl.net> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] nanostation and canopy towers within 2 miles of each other > Hey Tom, > Great post with great info. have no quams with the info you have > presented. > > Just wanted to point it.. that I think you read Marco's email backwards... > > What I understood from Marco's post is that HE is currently operating > the Moto Canopy Tower, and a competitor is getting ready to light up a > Ubiquity tower approx. 2 miles away from his tower. > > :) > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > > > On 9/23/2010 7:03 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> Marco, >> >> Be aware of one very important principle when deploying Ubiquiti MIMO.... >> >> With them, you can NOT disable either of the polarities, both polarities >> always hear noise. >> In mode 8-15, double the capacity is acheived, each pol with unique data. >> Even in Modes 0-7 (single chain), I believe the same signal gets >> transmitted >> across both pols, and listens on both pols for same signal. >> The benefit of this is more resilience to multi-path fade, and a >> theoretical >> 3db increase in power on the receive. >> The negative of this is that the noise from BOTH polarities is heard. >> >> So... Lets say Horizontal pol is noise free, but verticle pol is full of >> noise. There is no way to steer around the noise on verticle pol. >> There is no way to select using Horizontal pol only without the noise of >> the >> verticle antenna heard. >> >> SO.... How does this apply to Co-existence with Canopy bearby? Well, most >> Canopy APs use Verticle polarity only. >> Therefore, the Canopies tower will likely use most of the Verticle >> polarity >> channels, and your ubiquitis will likely hear a lot more noise on >> Verticle >> channels. >> >> If you used equipment that was a single pol design, you'd be able to >> select >> Horizontal pol only, and you'd be able to steer around the Canopy easily. >> With Mimo Ubiquiti, you wont have that option anymore. As well, the >> Canopy >> user is locked to 20Mhz channels, and wont be able to make room for you >> that >> way either. So... you should be prepared that you are likely going to be >> fighting interference with the Canopy users. The Canopy user will have >> one >> advantage, they'll only need 3db SNR to survive your noise, where you'll >> need atleast 8-10db SNR to survive their noise. (Ubiquiti would work >> better >> at 18-25db SNR). >> >> You will have two advantages though.... One, your Ubiquitis can be set to >> 10Mhz channels, adjustable in 5Mhz increasments, to find the holes >> between >> the Canopy's selected channels. Two, the Ubiquitis are higher power. >> You'll >> be able to go up to 24-26dbm at the CPE (depending on modulation), where >> Canopy may be limited to 22dbm, and Ubiquiti has more flexible CPE >> options >> to choose higher gain antennas, if needed. >> >> If the Canopy tower is two miles away, you should be able to carefully >> select your channel plan to avoid interference, but noise at your tower >> will >> still be a big concern to avoid. I'd highly recommend that you go all out >> on >> the Ubiquiti Tower, and in addition to using the UBiquiti Antennas, use >> the >> custom third party shields made for them to increase the Front/Back >> isolation of the antennas. >> >> These Ubiquiti Radio are really really sweet. And their wireless dirver >> appear to handle noise well. But its still all about the math, and with >> Ubiquiti MIMO, it does hear MORE noise, because of the dual pol design. >> >> Note, if you ever run into trouble where there the Verticle pol noise is >> to >> severe for the AP.... It is possible to select single chain mode 0-7, and >> cap the verticle pol antenna port on the radio (disconnect verticle pol >> antenna feed), then your radio would just hear on Horizontal pol. (I >> believe >> Chain0 is Horizontal pol, from what we've determined, but you'd need to >> confirm that yourself). However, I can not vouge for whether there would >> be >> any long term harm to the radio because of that, meaning whether it would >> hurt to operate the radio without an antenna load on the second chain >> polarity. But we've operated successfully like that at some sights for a >> while. >> >> Another technique that can help is to point only one 120 degree antenna >> in >> the direction of the Canopy tower. The mentality here is to send the very >> least amount of noise and channel usage in their direction. It will be >> easier for the Canopy tower to vacate and leave a single channel for your >> use, in that direction. Anything you point at them could interfere with >> them, and vice versa, so reduce the number of channels pointed to them. >> Most >> ISPs can spare a channel, but cant spare many. So give them a solution >> for >> non-interference, that impacts them the least. They were there first, >> and >> would likely protect their turf, the last thing you want is a noise >> battle >> with a 3db SNR TDD radio. >> >> The Ubiquiti freq scanner works well, to find the best free channel to >> use >> for each of your sectors. That will come in handy, determining what >> channels >> are being used by the Canopy. >> . >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL& Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marco Coelho"<coelh...@gmail.com> >> To:<motor...@afmug.org>; "WISPA General List"<wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:57 PM >> Subject: [WISPA] nanostation and canopy towers within 2 miles of each >> other >> >> >>> I've got a competitor getting ready to light a nanostation based tower >>> within 2 miles of one of my Canopy 2.4 towers. What kind of >>> interference should I expect? >>> >>> Listening to this guy, their radios are magic and can shoot through >>> trees and over hills. Totally overcoming line of site issues. Is he >>> smoking something strange? >>> >>> Marco >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Marco C. Coelho >>> Argon Technologies Inc. >>> POB 875 >>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875 >>> 903-455-5036 >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! 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