On 2005-06-24, Bill Haneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ridiculous. > > Here's a GOOD REASON for this hint: > > * applications sometimes want/need to post windows that should not be > decorated, and perhaps shouldn't even be distinguished visually as > "separate top level windows" - examples are certain types of popups, > splash screens, and transient windows.
The WM can decide how to decorate these based on abstract type information. > override-redirect. > The problem with override-redirect is that it > 'hides' the window from the WM, thus conflicting with assistive > technologies such as onscreen magnifiers, Pop-up menus grab all input, so override-redirect isn't such big an annoyance after that. I don't know if they should also really be managed by the WM... certainly its easier to handle them on the app-side. > You may think that splash screens are evil They are, as they currently are implemented. (Override-redirects or otherwise annoying popups instead of just displaying it in what is to be the app main or initial document window while it is loading..) > , that popups should never be toplevels, Dialogs should rather be implemented within the app window... Ion tries to emulate this but isn't always succesfull without tweaking because people don't get that toolbox windows (that are absolutely crappy UI design, btw) are not transients. Transients are essentially modal. Or they forget to mark things transients that are such. Acrobat reader (4.x) is the archetypal of this: it doesn't mark dialogs transient, but when its main window gets hidden by the WM, it hides the dialog too, and this can cause an annoying loop in Ion. It doesn't break the ICCCM by this, but certainly does violate all good UI design principles, i.e. letting the WM do its job instead of trying to be its own WM. > I don't think we can reach > consensus that all forms of undecorated window (in an > otherwise-decorated DE) are forever evil; therefore an UNDECORATED hint > is required (until such time as all applications which disagree with you > die out). Undecorated is not evil, if the user desires so by the choice of WM or by request from it. The app decorating things and expecting the WM not to is. The WM deciding to not decorate things should be based on the window type or user's request, not the app's explicit request, because this only leads app writers into making their own decorations and ignoring WMs that would rather display their own decorations (because they think hints are commands). When the hints are more abstract, at least a few more programmers would expect different WMs to behave different, and thus make less restricting assumptions on the environment. -- Tuomo _______________________________________________ wm-spec-list mailing list wm-spec-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/wm-spec-list