I would love to talk with your father. I'm hoping to meet someone in California in the physics department who will work with me on this stuff; I'm inadequate.
Re monotheism - the point wasn't the list of human demarcations, but the presence of individuals who are originators. Islam's Mohammed is a clear example, as is Jesus. In both cases, historical time dates from them. That's the point I'm making. And that time moves both forward and back- wards from them - as opposed to the time, say, of Judaism which goes back to an 'origin' of the world - there's no negative time, i.e. the origin was the creation of the world. With Jesus, time is both before and after, and as such, the year 0 is defined and thereby AD and BC, or CE, and BCE, however one wants to define it. And with this zero-point, there's a temporal collapse in the sense that the origin defined is an Origin, i.e. critical point. Time, which is generally continuous and appears cyclical, has this _moment_ from which it ascends and descends.
I'm not sure what sorts of chronology other cultures reference in general. In Japan, it's emperor's reigns (traditionally), and these enumerated in terms of year, i.e. year 3 of the Meiji period. (I forget the complexity.) In Rome I think it was similar? I'm not sure. I'm reading a book, The Manuals of Buddhism by Ledi Sayadaw, published in Bangkok; the date reads 2521/1978. This might relate to the birth of the Buddha? I'm not sure -
- Alan
On Fri, 13 May 2005, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote:
Dear Alan
i'm only reporting what people said--myself i have no idea or opinion--i shd ask my father--he is a theoretical physicist who studied under Heisenberg (ironic for a man whose physics idol was Einstein--) and also worked in bio-physics and bio-chemistry--
re monotheism i wd think all monothesims are linear--as they are the narrative of the relationships of a people with their God--so there are human figures along the way who play prominent roles--Noah, Abraham, Moses etc--the prophets are also human figures--who help keep the narrative going so to speak--by creating an anticipation for what is to come--so that when the event does occur, it takes its proper place in the narrative--i understand that it is not based on one human as point A--but at same time it is linear, narrative----the originating narrative in which Jesus and Mohammed are seen as being figures in also--
one of the great creative periods in western thoght and science was in Moorish Spain, when all three tradtiions were working together--rather than being set against each other--
>From: Alan Sondheim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" <WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA> >To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA >Subject: Re: ....A./D./ the phenomenology analog/digital discussion >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 01:17:12 -0400 > >The Turing hypothesis is wrong, as Penrose goes on endlessly about. >It >only deals with computable functions, and the world is simply not >made up >of only computable functions. Unsolvability theory deals with some >of the >stuff formally; Penrose shows as well that things like the collapse >of the >wave equation aren't modelled that way. I don't know your friend, >but the >physicist friends I've known (mainly Bohm and Finkelstein) would not >have >made that claim. > >There are monotheisms and monotheisms. I'm referencing those that >are >based on a 'figure' who is human and problematic, Jesus, Mohammed, >Joseph >Smith, etc. It's a different situation. That's why I'm careful to >say >"linear narratives" etc. - it's not just monotheism, it's monotheism >and >body. > >As far as the math goes - I'm not sure what math you're talking >about when >you say "no one." I don't claim to be a mathematician but god knows >I've >talked with them. Perhaps your friend doesn't know quantum >mechanics? I >have no idea - Alan > > >On Thu, 12 May 2005, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > >> >>Actually, monotheism--comes from the Jewish tradition predating the >>Christain and Islamic monotheisms. The white hole is actually--as >>you >>have the three in one--three traditions of the one (God). >> >>Re the analog/digital discussion--I shared some of the posts with a >>friend who works as an "architect" of computer programs. He >>pointed out >>that the Turing hypothesis proposes that everything in nature can >>be >>reproduced digitally. So far there is nothing that has proved this >>wrong. >> >> He also pointed out the same thing a physicist friend had >>noted: >>that in this discussion, no one knows the math. Words, language >>are >>being substituted for the lack of math--and it results in >>confusion. >>What is being discussed is actually not understood. Without >>knowing the >>mathematics they say, much of the philosophy is also muddled. >> >> >> >> >> >From: Alan Sondheim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >Reply-To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" >><WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA> >> >To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA >> >Subject: ....A./D. >> >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:31:13 -0400 >> > >> >....A./D. >> > >> > >> >...Analog digital / analog discrete, but also Anno Domini; one >>can only >> >point out that linear time from 0 moves through both negative and >> >positive numbers; the years are integers, the continuum >>backgrounded. >> >A/D: Monothe- ism's gift, this or that, before or after; A/D: the >> >continuum of time re/produced as discrete. The year 0 of our >>lord, the >> >year 1 of our lord. This is the trouble with religions or >>ideologies >> >with monolithic and linear narratives apparently grounded in >>specific >> >and human events - everything proceeds like a white hole out of >>them. >> >Of course every system, however broken, has its accountancy; I am >> >punning here on A./D., the ferociousness of this division, and >>from the >> >viewpoint of believers - as if humankind were waiting for this, >>the >> >insertion of our lord into history, breaking history, remaking >>the >> >codex of dates. Islam is similar. With monotheisms it's all gone >>bad; >> >the fabrication carries a suspect political ideology, as if the >>world >> >has waited for year 0 and the insertion of a related temporal >> >framework. This is what happens when there's a guy - Jesus or >>Mohammed >> >or whomever - involved. The construct of absolute time is >>equivalent to >> >absolute negative and positive, right or wrong. Clearly history >>doesn't >> >start or end with the guy, so one counts forwards and backwards >>from >> >him. But he's there as a stopper, transformation, wave equation >> >collapse, as deadly as Schrodinger's cat might be. >> > >> >Somewhere Weyl wrote about the last vestige of the self/ego in >> >physics - >> >the Cartesian origin. The guy hangs out there, claims the origin >>for >> >himself/itself, refuses to recognize the tensor algebra of the >>thing >> >which >> >isn't a thing. It's be-all and end-all for him. Time begins, >>marches >> >forward or backward, a permanent light-cone. The rest are its >> >children. >> > >> >( Note that this absolute time is _finite,_ that it begins and >>ends, >> >that >> >the origin is _historical._ And note that so many other systems >> >portend a >> >creation behind/beyond which numeracy was non-existent; the >>numbers >> >begin >> >in mythic time. So there are configurations that are lost in >>essence >> >- not >> >a guy hanging out, as if known by one and all. There's always the >> >problem >> >of the divine with historical time; mythos turns to miracles, >>Jesus >> >doing >> >this or that, almost like a party. Three and one is one by the >>way; >> >for >> >any absolute finite X here, X -> 1, I believe it is called a >> >_kernel._ ) >> > >> > >> >=== >> >>______________________________________________________________________________ __ >>Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - >>try >>it now! >> > >( URLs/DVDs/CDroms/books/etc. see >http://www.asondheim.org/advert.txt )
________________________________________________________________________________ With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It's free!
( URLs/DVDs/CDroms/books/etc. see http://www.asondheim.org/advert.txt )
