sam wrote:>I am particularly puzzled by the stance "we don't make formal replies to individuals" and "in particular HTML WG editors...are encouraged to make use of >[WAI XTECH Mailing List and HTML WG Teleconferences]".
I think you are conflating messages here, the one laura sent and you quoted from has no official connection or endorsement with any WAI group. Your out of context quotation of a reply by Janina to Ian appears to be on the subject of the protocols for inter working group group communication on a formal level. Something which i do not understand, but thought that both you and Janina would being chairs and all. best regards Stevef 2009/7/19 Sam Ruby <[email protected]> > Ian Hickson wrote: > >> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009, Laura Carlson wrote: >> >>> To that end, we propose that the HTML working group adopt the following >>> statement as an official procedure and publish it in HTML working group Web >>> space. >>> >>> Procedure to Promote Progress With Accessibility Issues in HTML5 >>> >>> Procedure Overview: >>> >>> The HTML WG will look to the W3C WAI groups for guidance, listen to their >>> advice, and collaborate with them to reach mutually agreeable accessibility >>> solutions. Furthermore, collaboration will be promoted in a pro-active >>> manner, i.e., whenever possible, design features known or foreseen to have >>> an impact on accessibility will be explored and discussed with the Protocols >>> and Formats Working Group (PFWG) [2] prior to decisions in order to ensure >>> mutually beneficial resolution of issues. >>> >> >> Laura, in the interests of the collaboration you espouse, could you reply >> to the e-mail I wrote to you last month? >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0669.html >> >> Collaboration Framework: >>> >>> 1. Approach issues on the basis of the shared goal of making HTML 5 >>> the best solution for everyone, including people with disabilities. >>> >> >> This should mean working for accessibility as a whole, not working for >> specific features. For example, in the context of tables, it should mean >> focusing on making tables accessible, not focusing on the summary="" >> attribute to the exclusion of discussion of other solutions. (I have been >> informed that in fact the WAI groups are more interested in voting on >> whether summary="" is in or out than on voting on what accessibility >> solutions should be used to make tables accessible, for instance.) >> >> Can we get a commitment from members of the WAI to approach issues on the >> basis of the shared goal of making HTML 5 the best solution for everyone, >> including people with disabilities and people without disabilities? >> >> 2. Work from concrete issues as to what in HTML 5 needs to be improved by >>> asking PFWG to clearly identify accessibility functional requirements and >>> provide rationale. >>> >> >> I most recently tried to approach the WAI on the topic of <canvas>: >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2009Jun/0093.html >> >> I've yet to receive any concrete functional requirements suggestions for >> changes to the specification on this topic from the WAI (although I have >> received several suggestions from members of the HTMLWG who are not members >> of the WAI). I am still hopeful that the WAI will clearly identify >> accessibility functional requirements and provide rationale. Is there any >> chance the WAI could provide an ETA for such advice on this topic? >> >> 3. Listen to their input, ask for clarification, and work together to >>> devise solutions to satisfy accessibility requirements. >>> >> >> I have asked for clarifications, for example in June, regarding tables: >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0173.html >> >> I received an official reply to the effect that my questions were not >> welcome because they were not from a group: >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0260.html >> >> ...and my reply to that, asking about which groups would qualify to get a >> reply, received no replies at all: >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0262.html >> >> 4. Ask PFWG if proposed solutions meet accessibility requirements. >>> * If they say no, ask what functionality is still needed and >>> continue the collaboration. >>> >> >> As noted above, I did this with <canvas>, and received no concrete >> replies. (I received many thanks, but no technical replies.) >> >> I look forward to further collaborations with the WAI, and hope that >> concrete advice such as the advice you suggest that we ask for will be >> forthcoming. >> > > +1 to what Ian said. Continuing where Ian left off: > > Laura Carlson wrote: > >> * If they say no, ask what functionality is still needed and >> continue the collaboration. >> * If they say yes, incorporate text for the mutually agreed upon >> solution into the specification. >> > > These options are available to every member of the HTML Working Group. Many > members of WAI are members of the HTML Working Group. Those that are not > currently members but are interested in exercising the above options are > also encouraged to join. > > Collaboration Tools: >> >> Tools to facilitate the procedure include but are not limited to: >> >> * WAI XTECH Mailing List [3] >> * PF's Caucus on HTML Issues Weekly Teleconference [4] >> * Joint Task Forces/Ad Hoc Groups >> * Joint Sessions at Face-to-Face Meetings >> * HTML WG Teleconferences [5] >> * W3C ESW Wiki [6] >> * Tracker [7] >> > > All of these exist as possibilities and many are actively being used. > > All interested parties, in particular HTML WG editors, are encouraged >> to make use of these collaboration tools and opportunities. >> > > I am particularly puzzled by the stance "we don't make formal replies to > individuals" and "in particular HTML WG editors...are encouraged to make use > of [WAI XTECH Mailing List and HTML WG Teleconferences]". > > Respectfully, >> >> Laura L. Carlson <[email protected]> >> > (public) Invited expert (good standing) > > Bruce Lawson <[email protected]> >> > Opera Software (good standing) > > Catherine Roy <[email protected]> >> > (public) Invited expert (good standing) > > Debi Orton <[email protected]> >> > (public) Invited expert (good standing) > > Gez Lemon <[email protected]> >> > > Jason White <[email protected]> >> > (public) Invited expert (good standing) > > John Foliot <[email protected]> >> > (public) Invited expert (good standing) > > Leif Halvard Silli <[email protected]> >> > (public) Invited expert (good standing) > > Robert J Burns <[email protected]> >> > > Steve Faulkner <[email protected]> >> > W3C Invited Experts (good standing) > > In a word, I am disappointed by this proposal. In addition to the two > things Ian is waiting on, I am waiting on text for a vote on the summary > issue to be made available for a public review. > > > [1] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter.html#wai >> [2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/ >> [3] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/participation.html#Subscribin >> [4] http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/Caucus >> [5] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Teleconferences >> [6] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML >> [7] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker >> >> A copy of this proposal is also in the ESW Wiki at: >> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AccessibilityIssueProcedure >> >> -- >> Laura L. Carlson >> > > - Sam Ruby > > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG Europe Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
