On 1/26/2012 5:12 AM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
hi Jeffe,
Ian has stated in response [1]:
"I follow it, like everyone else, exactly to the extent that I think it
requires us to do the right thing for the Web. When the process requires
us to do something bad for the Web, I ignore it."
I say fair play to him and as long as any other participant in the
process can opt out of the process whenever he/she thinks it's "bad
for the Web," and the W3C is OK with that, then we have a level
playing field for all particpants.
Noone has a free pass to opt out of the process. As I said in [1],
there have been exceptions where Ian has not followed the W3C process
and we have successfully worked through disagreements. Noone's choice
to "opt out" are blithely ignored by the Chairs.
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0031.html
but his stament does appear to contradict your statement:
"he agrees to follow the W3C Process"
I don't interpret his statement in the same way you do.
I understand your literal interpretation (since he is not following 100%
of the rules all of the time it means he is not following the process).
As he says in his response to me [2], it is his view that sometimes he
follows it more closely than W3C staff. Since I believe that W3C staff
follows the process (possibly with some mistakes), I conclude that Hixie
believes he follows the process. As he says in [2], he does not claim
to. Nonetheless, he does.
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0032.html
For people such as myself who have invested a lot of time and energy
working within, what is at times a tortuous process, in effecting
change to the HTML5 specification, for what I believe to be the 'right
thing for the Web'. I don't want to see that work undermined and
undone by someone who is in a powerful position, because he or she
thinks they own rights on what is the 'right thing for the Web'.
This is a fair concern. If you have specific concerns about your work
being "undermined", I hope you are bringing your concerns to the Chairs,
to Philippe, and to me.
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0032.html
best regards
Stevef
On 25 January 2012 23:58, Jeff Jaffe <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 1/25/2012 4:53 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
Hi Philippe,
Ian Hickson wrote: [1]
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Philippe Le Hegaret wrote:
>
> as a reminder, as editor of several documents for the Web
Applications
> and HTML Working Group, you agreed to follow the W3C
Process, as well as
> following the HTML Decision Policy of the HTML Working
Group. If this is
> no longer the case, you should let the Chairs of those
Groups aware of
> this,
The chairs of both groups, as well as yourself, and Jeff, are
fully aware
of this already.
Let me say what I am fully aware of:
1. Ian has fundamental disagreements with the way that the W3C
process works. He has been very clear about that.
2. Nonetheless, for situations that he is wearing his hat as
Editor within a W3C Working Group, he agrees to follow the W3C
Process. Part of the reason is a mutual desire to have HTML work
proceed both in W3C (under its process) and WHATWG (under its
process), and to keep HTML 5 as aligned as possible with HTML LS.
3. There is already a consensus that some of the points that he
has made about standardization processes are good points -
although not for the goals of W3C Working Groups. Many of these
points have been adopted for W3C Community Groups which has
different objectives.
4. On the whole, the Chairs have reported to me that they are
satisfied that Ian has fulfilled the commitments (point 2 above)
to follow the W3C Process. There have been exceptions which (to
date) we have successfully worked through.
5. Ian is so much "bought in" to W3C, that on one occasion where
he thought the Chairs had made a mistake, he actually escalated
the Chairs' decision to the W3C CEO. (nb., after a brief
discussion between the CEO, Chairs, and Editor - all agreed that
the Chairs and Editor would resolve the issue and the CEO did not
enter the HTML 5 Decision Process.)
--
Ian Hickson
So, a working group member who plays a pivotal role does not
agree to follow the W3C Process, as well as follow the HTML
Decision Policy of the HTML Working Group.
Hence Ian has been following the W3C Process.
Why should any of us?
regards
Stevef
On 25 January 2012 11:39, Steve Faulkner
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Phillippe,
Ian Hickson wrote [1]:
"Nobody really follows the W3C process. Some claim to, others
(such as
myself) do not. Being on a W3C list certainly doesn't imply
anything about
one's actions with respect to the hallowed Process."
I have acted under the assumption that participation in
working groups is dependent on my agreeing to, and attempting
in good faith, to abide by W3C process, it appears that I and
others have been mislead.
[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0025.html
--
with regards
Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG
www.paciellogroup.com <http://www.paciellogroup.com> |
www.HTML5accessibility.com
<http://www.HTML5accessibility.com> |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
<http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
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<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
--
with regards
Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG
www.paciellogroup.com <http://www.paciellogroup.com> |
www.HTML5accessibility.com <http://www.HTML5accessibility.com> |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
--
with regards
Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG
www.paciellogroup.com <http://www.paciellogroup.com> |
www.HTML5accessibility.com <http://www.HTML5accessibility.com> |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ <http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
