Turbo,
I agree that bearings from a turn point are usual but unfortunately that is not
what SeeYou does. I guess that is because you can see if your are in sector
when
your bearing Info Box is between the numbers on the task sheet.
As for getting SeeYou to generate the sector in my example set -
Direction to Fixed value
Angle12 to 160
Radius1 to 6km
Anlge1 to 70
Radius2 to 1km
Angle2 to 0
I have raised a ticket about the half cylinder start sector as you asked.
Mike
________________________________
From: Tobias Bieniek <[email protected]>
To: Mike Forster <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 December, 2010 18:16:43
Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
Just to quote the IGC on this:
"A geometric figure on the ground bounded by two
lines-of-constant-bearing
from a Turn Point, a maximum distance from that point, and,
optionally, a
minimum distance from that point."
http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/sc3a.pdf - Page 25
Turbo
Am 27.12.2010 11:19, schrieb Mike Forster:
Hi Tobias
>
>I am not suggesting SeeYou or XCsoar are wrong, just that they are
>different. In a task sheet produced by SeeYou there might be a line
>such as -
>
>
>DNG Dunning 20.6km 311° Rmin=3281ft, Rmax=6.0km, Brg1=230°, Brg2=90°
>To get an approximation to this in XCS you have to set the task type
>to AAT. You can't create an exact equivalant in XCSoar because XCS
>only has a single radius but to create the area without the Rmin you
>set the Type to be Sector, a radius of 6km, a Start radial of
>90+180=270 degrees and a finish radial of 230 - 180 = 50 degrees.
>
>Since SeeYou is so widley used by competition organisors for scoring
>and task setting I was hoping that the same convention would be used
>to save having to add/subtract 180 and then trying to decide which
>order they should be in.
>
>This is a different problem from the fact that in trying to simplify
>matters by having different task types, each with different sector
>types you have in fact have made it more complex because the user
>now
>has to know what sector types are supported by the different task
>types. I still haven't found a task type that supports a start
>sector
>of a half cylinder which is quite common here in the UK. You can
>start
>out the side of the half cylinder, out the top or out the front.
>
>My thoughts are that you give the user the flxibility to set any
>type
>and size of sector and if they stuff it up then that's their
>problem,
>rather than trying to second guess what some evil task setter might
>chose.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Tobias Bieniek <[email protected]>
>To: Mike Forster <[email protected]>
>Cc: [email protected]
>Sent: Sun, 26 December, 2010 21:26:57
>Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
>
> Hey Mike
>
>I don't have a lot of SeeYou experience and I had a really hard
>time
>creating a task with a waypoint sector like that... Could you
>guide
>me through it so I can check what the problem with SeeYou is in
>this
>case?! Actually I think that SeeYou might be "wrong" in this
>case...
>If I have a sector from 90deg to 120deg, I would expect it to be
>on
>the south east and not on the other side...
>
>To be honest I remember myself flying one or two competitions
>where
>SeeYou was used and I never had any problems with the way these
>sectors were given on the task sheet. Have you verified that 5.2.x
>also has the same behavior than 6.0?!
>
>Turbo
>
>
>
>Am 26.12.2010 18:04, schrieb Mike Forster:
>Hi Tobias
>>
>>Attached is a jpeg showing a SeeYou task with the sector at
>>DNG using the parameters I gave. The horizontal boundary
>>running east - west is the line with bearing 90 degrees,
>>whereas it would be 270 degrees in XCS. i.e. if you were on
>>the line the bearing To the turn point would be 90 degrees
>>but
>>you are 270 degrees FROM the turnpoint.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Tobias Bieniek <[email protected]>
>>To: Mike Forster <[email protected]>
>>Cc: [email protected]
>>Sent: Sun, 26 December, 2010 16:47:04
>>Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
>>
>>Hi Mike
>>
>>We are working on the problem with the second radius...
>>As for the bearing problem you described, I can't
>>reproduce
>>it. The bearings of the sectors are usually based on
>>north
>>and turn clockwise. Not sure what you mean by TO and
>>FROM,
>>because the bearings are not depending on the direction
>>of
>>the next/prev turnpoint. I've tried it with your example and it
>>
>>showed exactly the north-west sector...
>>
>>Turbo
>>
>>
>>
>>Am 26.12.2010 17:20, schrieb Mike Forster:
>>Hi Rob,
>>>
>>>I like the idea of having default types of start
>>>points, turn points and finish points but I think
>>>you
>>>need to give the user complete flexibility to set
>>>these rather than forcing them to use e.g. "BGA
>>>Fixed
>>>Course sector". I like the way SeeYou does it
>>>using a
>>>Direction (Fixed value, Symetrical, To Next Point,
>>>To
>>>Previous Point, To Start Point), two radii and 2
>>>angles.
>>>
>>>I note in V6.0 that when the task type is AAT that
>>>an
>>>Area Sector type turn point only has a single
>>>radius
>>>but here in the UK they are sometimes set with 2.
>>>SeeYou also defines the bearings TO the turn
>>>point,
>>>not from it like XCSoar. A task sheet might say
>>>something like "Rmin=3281ft, Rmax=6.0km,
>>>Brg1=235°,
>>>Brg2=90" which defines a sector north west
>>>of a
>>>turn point. (I have no idea why it mixes ft
>>>
>>>and km for the units!). If XCSoar used the
>>>same
>>>convention it would save having to
>>>add/subtract
>>>180 degrees from the numbers on the task
>>>sheet.
>>>
>>>Great work from all involved in V6.0. Now I
>>>just
>>>need some hardware I can see in bright
>>>sunlight.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
From: Rob Dunning <[email protected]>
>>>To: [email protected]; [email protected]
>>>Sent: Fri, 24 December, 2010 16:55:36
>>>Subject: [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
>>>
>>>I created an interactive mockup of the task
>>>manager
>>>for 6.1.
>>>
>>>It does three things differently from 6.0:
>>>
>>>1) You create a new task by simply adding turnpoints. When you're
>>>done, it tells you what kind of task you've made
>>>--
>>>you don't have to
>>>
>>>specify anything before building the task.
>>>
>>>2) New configuration page (a la version 5.2.4)
>>>where
>>>you define your
>>>
>>>default turnpoint, start, and finish types.
>>>
>>>3) New "Nationality" option in the
>>>configuration, so
>>>the turnpoint
>>>types used by your country are presented first
>>>when
>>>you edit a
>>>
>>>turnpoint (e.g. British Gliding Association
>>>"Fixed
>>>Sector").
>>>
>>>Thoughts?
>>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/XCSoarDevRLD/TaskManager/TaskManagerMocks2.pdf
>>>
>>>Rob
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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