On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 10:06:24 +0200,
Takashi Iwai wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 20:56:57 +0200,
> Manfred Hollstein wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Jul 2025, 17:45:52 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 17:28:00 +0200,
> > > Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 14:50:28 +0200,
> > > > Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 18:24:39 +0200,
> > > > > Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 16:26:33 +0200,
> > > > > > Lubos Kocman wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Xfce folks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I received okay feedback from users manually enabling Xfce on Leap
> > > > > > > 16.0 by installing patterns-xfce-xfce. Seems like user had to
> > > > > > > install
> > > > > > > alsa-ucm-conf otherwise it was a smooth experience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I recall that there was an experimental Wayland support for Xfce.
> > > > > > > What's the status of it in openSUSE? Could we have that in Agama
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > both Leap 16 + TW?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I started a little tracker for it
> > > > > > > https://code.opensuse.org/leap/features/issue/218
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I put my comment there, but maybe it'd be smoother to discuss on ML,
> > > > > > so here I write my test result with XFCE 4.20 Wayland on Leap 16.0.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I added OBS X11:xfce/16.0 and simply ran
> > > > > > zypper dup --allow-vendor-change
> > > > > > to get XFCE 4.20 stuff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For enabling Wayland session, I had to install the following
> > > > > > packages
> > > > > > in addition:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - xfce4-session-wayland-experimental
> > > > > > - labwc
> > > > > > - dbus-1-daemon
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The labwc is the base compositor, and dbus-1-daemon is for
> > > > > > dbus-run-session command. They could be put to Requires or
> > > > > > Recommends
> > > > > > of xfce4-session-wayland-experimental package, I guess.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After installing the above, I could choose "XFCE (Wayland)" in
> > > > > > lightdm, and start with it. So far, so good.
> > > > > > But, the behavior seems fairly unstable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - The session start took time;
> > > > > > it took 10 seconds until the panel appears
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - The background picture doesn't appear always, in most cases, it's
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > blank screen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - xfce4-panel wrapper-2.0 keeps crashing as segfault
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - xfdesktop seems crashing as segfault constantly when I click
> > > > > > the right mouse button on the root screen
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I played a bit more, and found that the instability of the XFCE
> > > > > Wayland desktop (the crash of panel/wrapper-2.0 and xfdesktop) seems
> > > > > to be the bug of gtk-layer-shell. There is a Debian bug entry:
> > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1094442
> > > > > https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/6958
> > > > >
> > > > > After updating libgtk-layer-shell0 package from OBS X11:Wayland/16.0
> > > > > repo, it works much more stably.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lubos, could you submit gtk-layer-shell package update from FACTORY to
> > > > > 16.0, too?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, I built also xfce4-session-wayfire package to use wayfire instead
> > > > > of labwc. It's in my OBS home:tiwai repo if someone wants to try.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another relevant point: our labwc package seems to be built with the
> > > > > old wlroots-0.17.4 embedded in the package. Also it's a bit outdated
> > > > > on 16.0 (FACTORY has v0.9.0 while 16.0 has v0.8.1.).
> > > > >
> > > > > In addition, wlroots on 16.0 is still v0.18.1, while FACTORY already
> > > > > moved to v0.19.0. We might want the updates of those stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess labwc can be built with the stock wlroots after the update to
> > > > > v0.19.x.
> > > >
> > > > ... and further testing showed that labwc 0.9.0 shows another problem,
> > > > namely, the background picture is gone and remains blank.
> > > > We can postpone the labwc update for now.
> > >
> > > One more update: a big annoyance of XFCE Wayland desktop as of now is
> > > the lack of the screensaver. This make even suspend/resume
> > > impossible from the menu (the forced suspend via lid close still
> > > works, though, IIRC).
> > >
> > > Then I found that xfce4-screensaver 4.20 already supports Wayland, so
> > > I gave a try. I noticed Manfred already submitted the update to 4.20,
> > > and I took it and modified the package to enable Wayland. It required
> > > a new stuff, libwlembed. I built the package quickly together with
> > > wlr-protocols package taken from other place.
> > > Now the screen lock works, and suspend/resume nicely, too.
> >
> > Yep, there was no trace of wlmebed in sight, so I disabled the feature
> > "wayland" for the moment. If we really want to move to Wayland, this
> > stuff needs to be pushed, too. TBH, I doubt that we should/can provide a
> > stable/usable Wayland based Xfce pattern yet - there was a reason why we
> > called it "experimental" when we annouced 4.20. I don't really see what
> > has changed since then... Yes, lots of packages can now be compiled with
> > support for Wayland, but a stable Compositor is still not visible!
>
> Yes, currently we pick up another compositor, but it's certainly not
> ideal at all.
>
> > > So this would be definitely a plus for XFCE Wayland support.
> > > OTOH, libwlembed is still quite experimental, and not sure whether
> > > we want to put to Leap 16.0 and TW for now.
> >
> > Exactly, I'm not sure there's a clean/stable view for Wayland and Xfce
> > yet!
>
> The problem is that Leap 16.0 provides only the Wayland stuff as
> default, and X11-based desktops aren't listed at all. That's the
> intentional choice AFAIK. You can install the patterns after
> installing the system once, though.
>
> So, I think it's not too bad to provide XFCE Wayland pattern to be
> installed (of course marked as fat "experimental"), so that user can
> have a GUI, and let install the rest X11 Wayland patterns.
> Otherwise user would have to install either the whole GNOME or KDE for
> GUI at first. There is no YaST on Leap 16.0 but you can install
> packages via Mrylyn via GUI.
>
> Or, install the minimal and login on Linux console, but then you'd
> have to run zypper manually without GUI.
>
>
> > > The whole packages are found in my OBS home:tiwai:xfce project.
> >
> > I'll take a look at them, but I'm unsure how this will work out.
>
> I'm going to reduce the dependency a bit there, e.g. make libwlembed
> package to have vendor wlr-protocols. But libwlembed is a must-have
> stuff for xfce4-screensaver wayland support, and the question here is
> whether this stuff is qualified to be shipped for the standard
> distro.
>
> I guess having this wouldn't interfere for X11 usage; it's only for
> Wayland code path, after all. But distributing a package is a
> question in a different level.
I checked xfce4-screensaver code and all Wayland-specific stuff is
with conditionals like:
#ifdef ENABLE_WAYLAND
if (GDK_IS_WAYLAND_DISPLAY (gdk_display_get_default ())) {
...
that is, it's well isolated from the code path for X11, hence I
believe it won't interfere X11 behavior.
My only concern is the maturity of libwlembed, but there is activity
despite of the version 0.0.0. So I'd say we can take a risk.
So now I sent a PR of libwlembed package to X11:xfce (PR#1297106)
and another PR for xfce4-screensaver to enable it (PR#1297107).
Please check whether it's OK.
Thanks!
Takashi
