Friday, May 25, 2007, 7:17:25 PM, Don Day wrote: > Daniel, I disagree with the assertion that the XMLMind site needs to fix > assumptions that users got from however the tool was introduced to them. I > know that the XXE team has tried for years to create the proper level of > messaging about its function for those who come to the site to evaluate the > editor.
Well, one can just visit the XXE site to see. Certainly, users visit http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/ first and most importantly (I think that's a good place to tell what your product is and what it is not). Then many or rather most of them will also visit http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/features.html before that, maybe even http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/why_choose_xxe.html. Finally they visit http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/download.shtml. I don't see that message on any of these pages. I also read the XXE guide (which is not accessible from the started editor BTW; shouldn't it be under the Help menu?), and maybe I have just forgotten it, but I don't remember this message was there either. As far as I remember, I found out this "message" myself. Like, when I explained this message just recently, I have stared it with "I guess Hussein will correct me if I got their intent wrong". So, I came to the conclusion that the XXE guys either don't think it is a that important message, or they have just forgotten to send it explicitly at a well visible place. In the last case, they will fix it. In the first case, well, I think it is an important message, because of the danger I have described, but maybe I'm wrong. > Once those evaluators deploy the editor in a company, those users > will not be coming to xmlmind.com--they will be coming to whoever is > supporting that local deployment. The proper messages about the role of XXE > in a company's content architecture have to come from the document > architects who recommended it in the first place. > They are the ones who need to provide the central support, the > training, the announcements, and the strategic messaging about > structured authoring (which ultimately is what it is--no editor can > fully hid schema behaviors from authors, whatever the XML language). If there are real document architects, they will have to get the message somehow as well, and before they start playing with XXE, preferably. And in many if not in the most cases there are no real "document architects"... it's just Average Joe the programmer or the project lead looks for a DocBook or DITA editor, and thus grabs XXE to try it. And after his highly subjective (and otherwise unprofessional -- only a few is good on this topic) impressions they will like it, he will tell the other developers to use it, and most certainly he will not hold presentations about XXE first, just point to the XXE site and XXE documentation. > Regards, > -- > Don Day > Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee > IBM Lead DITA Architect > Email: dond at us.ibm.com > 11501 Burnet Rd. MS9033E015, Austin TX 78758 > Phone: +1 512-838-8550 > T/L: 678-8550 > > "Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? > Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?" > --T.S. Eliot > > xmleditor-support-bounces at xmlmind.com wrote on 05/25/2007 11:26:48 AM: > >> Friday, May 25, 2007, 6:09:51 PM, Hussein Shafie wrote: >> >> > Daniel Dekany wrote: >> >> >> >> I guess Hussein will correct me if I got their intent wrong, but... >> >> maybe the key would be to achieve that they realize that XXE is not >> >> meant to show you the documents as it will look like printed, and not >> >> only because it would be slow and hard to implement, but because it's >> >> not its approach. XXE don't want to hide from the editor that (s)he is >> >> working with an XML node tree. Not at all. What I like in XXE is >> >> exactly that I (more-less) "feel" where I am in the XML node tree, >> >> that I can precisely edit, precisely control the node tree, and yet I >> >> see something that is much easier to survey than that mess of XML tags >> >> that you see with a "plain text" editor. Now, in the generic case, too >> >> much formatting, like floating or absolute positioned stuff (not to >> >> mention transformations that real XSL style-sheet have to do) would >> >> make controlling the node tree harder. Certainly display:compact >> >> wouldn't hurt (it doesn't rearrange visually the nodes), but if your >> >> editors look like XXE as this, an XML node tree level editor, these >> >> things won't trouble them that much. Well, the only question is if >> >> they like the idea of node-tree-level editing... I would think that >> >> this possibility is the a main advantage of using these typical XML >> >> schemas over MS World and like. >> >> >> > >> > You are absolutely right. >> > >> > A long time ago, I worked during 3 months on a structured (pre-SGML) >> > editor called Grif. >> > >> > At that time, the project lead of Grif was Jean Paoli, now of the >> > XML+Microsoft fame. And the competitor of Grif was an Arbortext's >> > product, the ancestor of Epic. >> > >> > After I stopped working on Grif's code, I used Grif a lot to write some >> > documentation. >> > >> > This editor: >> > * was *truly* WYSIWYG. >> > * was intended to be used by *secretaries* (after quite a bit of >> > training!) and therefore, worked at a very abstract level compared to > XXE. >> > >> > After a lot of brainstorming, we, XMLmind, decided that, in the case of >> > structured documents, "less is more" and we decided to do the opposite >> > of Grif. >> >> Let me be bit picky here. I think it's not that typical case of "less >> is more" with XXE. Its that it has a different approach, and it should >> be remain true to that, and part of that is not supporting whatever >> wild formatting. But I hope you (XXE developers) don't want to apply >> the "less is more" approach in other senses. >> >> > I saying this just to stress the fact that the design of XXE is not >> > naive. >> >> I think with XXE there is a serious danger that users expect a usual >> WYSIWYG thing, and so they "don't get it", and will be disappointed. >> Thus, I belive it would be important for XXE to communicate this idea >> of XXE to new users at well visible place. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Daniel Dekany -- Best regards, Daniel Dekany
