Forgive me for coming very late to this debate. First, to the comrade who said: "The African National Congress is not the SACP nor COSATU so Cde Gwede cannot be expected to be the Chairperson of SACP in the capacity of the Secretary General of the ANC. I repeat myself on this matter, ask Cde Gwede in a meeting of the SACP about his view on the issue he will tell you what the SACP stand is on the matter of strikes. We will be fooled to expect Cde Gwede to echo the SACP stand in the capacity of ANC."
This thing about 'caps' is strange for me. Gwede is one whole comrade, he does not take out his brain and put in a different one when he changes his ANC cap for his party cap. Now it's fine to be a communist in a broader church that does not say everything a communist says but surely it would be wrong to let that organisation make us say what we do not believe. So let's assume that Cde Gwede was speaking his own mind, as one generally should, and let me now in turn speak my mind. I have to say I was angered when Cde Gwede said the workers mustn't strike because people mustn't think that the ANC is 'indebted' to the unions. What I want to know from Cde Gwede is this, why does he ask us to surrender a known strength now that the election result is sealed? Doesn't he remember that hundreds of thousands of people in thousands of battles big and small paved the road to Polokwane and then to the ANC's latest victory and thence to giving Gwede's voice the authority that it should be reported in every major newspaper what he said at the NUMSA congress. I'm talking not only about the hard work inside organisations but also about those long, hard strikes of the securities and the cleaners and shop workers, I'm talking about those hundreds and hundreds of small community protests about delivery, about that giant strike of the public workers and years of struggle in Khutsong. Surely we are now entitled to remind those we voted about the problems we voted them to solve. There's issues from those strikes that aren't solved yet. And surely we are entitled to influence our representatives by every means necessary, for the whole of their term of office. This is democracy. Capitalism didn't stand still since the election, and therefore we can't just stop with Polokwane policy, which is already becoming small compared to the bigger problems created by job losses. The reserve bank, if I'm not wrong, claims independence from government. Why should we not gather outside any government institution we choose, as often as we choose, to voice our solution to the crisis, transparently in public? This is democracy. And where's the shame in being indebted to that? Let's remind ourselves, capital's power is that it has capital. The captains of industry have vast collections of money, piles of infrastructure, the levers of investment, expensive whiskey; they have accumulated ingrained wealth and its fragrance is power. We - and by we I mean that majority who is deprived of our fair share of the wealth some of us create - we by way of power have got exactly kuphela 1. our own bodies, 2. some also our labour power, 3. and together our collective intelligence. Asking us to give up strikes and demonstrations and any other way we choose to mobilise our collective intelligence, is asking us to revert to the status of children. And concerning Cde Gwede, if we give up that power he finds himself unprotected from that deeply corrupting fragrance. Numsa's march to the reserve bank at least allows everyone to think about a different way for the reserve bank to respond to job losses. What I'd still like to discuss more is the actual proposal concerning interest rates. Lower interest would surely ease life for millions of homeowners and hopefully also renters, and that can't be bad. But as I understand it, the Cosatu call is to use interest rates to stimulate the economy: you don't get much from leaving your money in the bank so you take it out and invest it instead. Lower interest also makes it easier to borrow money to invest. But cutting interest rates does not work every time. Japan stayed in a recession after very deep interest rate cuts. I think it will not be enough for the current crisis, which involves a very deep crisis of capitalists' faith in their own system. So I think instead of looking for ways to ease capital into doing the right thing - against its own nature - we should look for ways to get rid of it and to defend ourselves from it until then. For a start I wonder about where the last few years' profits have gone in these companies doing all the retrenchments and why those profits can't be somehow offset against jobs now. I've been watching a spirited resistance of workers in this UK company called Visteon who occupied the buildings when the company said they were retrenched. And I ask myself how 30,000 jobs have evaporated here at home just in steel and motor industry, but not one single person anywhere in all of that thought to say, 'hey everyone, let's just not leave the place, let's just stay here until we get some justice'. Maybe some thought it but no-one was brave enough to say... (Eish, where were all the communists?!) So I think this is an equally important question for communists to ponder, why has there been no workplace level campaign to defend jobs and how do we turn that around? C -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wonder Nkosi (PTA) Sent: 09 June 2009 11:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workersand the Poor Comrades, I had been reading different views about the statement made by comrade Gwede at the mini conference of NUMSA. Views had been expressed and among the some noted that it might be a personal viewpoint not organisational, some revoked that you are a communist irrespective of the organisation you serve and so forth. Comrades had raised a matter of alliance leadership engaging each other on this matter in meetings not in the public terrain (media) where this matter had been raised. I don't want to raise issues of whether comrades are wrong or right. I believe that comrade gwede's statement lacked an appreciation of the procedures the union followed when raising their concern of how the reserve bank operate. I believe and know that it is within the LRA what NUMSA had done. Workers have that right to march to any institution to raise their concern and the anc leadership need to respect that. I don't think that comrade Gwede wanted to tell us that the current anc leadership doesn't recognise worker's rights as per the LRA and the constitution of sa. Among the current challenges that we face are not of the current leadership making. Also we need to acknowledge that this challenges emanated while the anc had been the leading party in government and to workers it is the same government irrespective of who is in the helm of the leadership. Our leaders need also to change approach in addressing this matters. There is no point in defending what you also know it's morally and politically wrong. Resolutions were taken in Limpopo and among them is the creation of decent work. That's also what the manifesto of the anc said towards April 22. we need to see our leadership meeting our expectations. It is time to implement what has been promised and if we fail let's engage on discussion to find an alternative and be faithful. An example, the osd had been agreed on in June 2007 and instead the approach of government had not been the one that is committing to resolve the crisis, by the way, the term of that agreement will officially come to an end this June, meaning the salary increment that will be received from July will be the last one as per the agreement and new negotiations need to take place. Also, the matter of the reserve bank is long overdue. Take for instance, tito had a concern there is no competition in the financial sector. Whether this scenario is based on cohorts or not it's another matter for discussion. But the situation is that south africans are milked to their last cents by the lack of competition. Whether you are buying a house, car or opening a new business venture, you will be suffering in the hands of the banks loan interest rates. This situation discourages investments also and unemployment will eventually increase. It is time to deliver but at whose terms? The anc or the capitalists? Surely, the anc has correct policies from the freedom charter to the polokwane conference. If implemented to the latter, we will be seeing greater advancement in pushing back the frontiers of poverty. But the capitalists will be pushing for a bigger share as always and this needs to be acknowledge by our leadership. When pronouncing their individual or collective policies, we need to be more vigilant and communicate what the policies of the anc says, if there is a stumbling block, take the people who voted you in position of authority into your confidence. The matter of whether comrade Gwede is a disappointment to the workers and the poor is subjective. He hasn't failed me yet and I believe that the majority of the alliance membership will agree with me. I only have a differing view in one matter not everything. Amandla wonder -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mohale David Sent: 08/06/2009 12:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workersand the Poor Comrades, I have for sometime been following closely the robust debates between and among comrades on the reported comments of the ANC SG about unions' strikes and what they mean or may mean. I have benefited a lot from frank and honest engagements of the revolutionary participants in this forum. Your continued engagement in this forum serves as another means of political education and development of many of us. What I have found to very odd at times in these engagements has been the presumption of homogeneity of views from members of the respective organisations. While the Polokwane conference has been widely heralded as the turning point for the left movement, both internally and externally, in terms of the decisive resolutions and elected leadership collective, it did necessarily yield unanimity of views from our leadership and members generally. Firstly, we need to appreciate that what Comrade Gwede said does not necessarily represent the official position of the NEC or government. That has been this acknowledgement in the debate, although implicitly, hence a very personalised criticism at times. The SG raised his views and certainly he acted within his own right in terms of how characterises the strikes at this point in time. In this context, he challenged us to look critically in the essence and appearance of those strikes and what message they may communicate, given the own left admission that it is happy with the processes so far, including the broadly representative class cabinet in character. I find nothing strange in what he has raised. Perhaps some of us have not been kind to that but there is nothing ideologically or principally wrong in what he has raised. We therefore need to debate those views within the context of essence and appearance and justification for workers to unite in their call for better working conditions and improved remuneration. I am a worker myself and I understand the reasons behind strong feelings for such an tactic. The second issue for me which I think problematises the context of engagements of other comrades is the denialist tendency that the ANC is a broad church. Our analysis of the first decade of democracy is that it has largely benefited the capital hence the growing inequalities and jobless economic growth. We recognised that this had been so through the 1996 class project that elevated the ruling class to position of benefit from government procurement and other democratic gains. Part of this beneficiation is attributable to the fact the capital was dominant in the ANC at the time. But it did not mean that the ANC was for the ruling class. Even at the time, our Strategy and Tactics had identified the working class and the poor among the motive forces of the revolution. But to what extend did these accrue benefits? The Polokwane watershed conference never made the ANC a socialist organisation. The ANC remains a broad church that continues to the disciplined force of the left. It is neither socialist nor communist. It is not capitalist either. This character is in terms of the conference resolutions and we need to respect those decisions. The left has the space within both the ANC and in government to strategically advance views and programmes that are to the benefit of the left. This however, still, does not make the ANC a left organisation. The third issue for me, which is a cause for concern, is the growing tendency to confuse membership of alliance partners and resort to labelling as a recourse. It is important for us to recognise and embrace the fact that the ANC membership has its own independent membership. COSATU and SACP are alliance partners of the ANC, with appreciation of the fact most of their members are equally members of the ANC. But it appears anything that comes from the ANC is not benefitting the revolution and that perception is not useful in terms of our revolution. Members of the ANC must be allowed their space to raise their views as the constitution gives them that credence. The strategic support of the alliance partners is appreciated and requisite for total liberation of our people but any form of potential abuse should be averted. We need to respect the views of the ANC much as we respect the views of both SACP and COSATU. I am uncertain whether a genuine individual opinion qualifies one not to be a communist anymore. Labelling, for me, is a depiction of intolerance at best and tends to be counter revolutionary at worst if not properly managed and dealt with. I am therefore calling on comrades to disentangle ourselves from the labelling trap. Let us preoccupy ourselves with issues and appreciate the constance of the need for our revolutionary vigilance against interruption of the revolution. But this vigilance has to be within the context of appreciation of diversity of views. In conclusion, I think that recent calls by SANCO and SAMMU in North West for resignation of the ANC SG as well as the recent COSATU position on the terms of President Jacob Zuma also serve to strengthen my point on the growing tendency to over-take ANC membership on matters that affect the ANC. Why raise an issue that is so moot, given the history of the movement, and proceed to say it not open for discussion? Isn't that an imposition? Why couldn't the ANC impose itself on COSATU that it must release Comrade Vavi to government? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alex M. Mashilo Sent: 06 June 2009 06:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workersand the Poor We must engage the ANC through structures. This is more than ever correct. But the SACP medium Term Vision (MTV) has got a good lesson for us. Among the centres of power that the MTV finds critical in this and any future stage of our revolution is the ideological terrain. Once any of our formations of the working class are attacked in public, through the media, like the ANC would do, we must respond in public, through the media. -----Original Message----- From: Mamphekgo,Steve (GPDPR) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Fri 6/5/2009 1:50 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workersand the Poor Cde President (Sabelo) you are quite right. We need to turn the ANC into a "disciplined force of the left", that is able to champion the interests of the working class, as the motive force of the National Democratic Revolution. This is the logical course of struggle we must continue to pursue within the ANC and broader mass democratic movement. I am saying logical course of our revolution because I am one of those who do not subscribe to the notion of the ANC being the broad church. We need to unapologetically entrench the working class hegemony within the ANC by participating in all its structures and contesting the content of its revolutionary agenda. We cannot arrogantly expect this to come on a silver platter, but we must lobby and campaign for this hegemony, without necessarily alienating those who sympathize with our course. I am not sure whether to agree with the approach of using "all legally permissible channels", because I do not think that we can regulate our comradely relationship through legal channels. This is the tendency that emerged post-Polokwane whereby we have witnessed comrades such as TM and others running to the courts of law for a legal recourse against the ANC and their own comrades. We must continue to engage through the structures of our movement, including the ANC, Party and COSATU, to contest the content of our struggle agenda and continue to persuade one another. In case of disputes or disagreements, our movement provides organizational recourse to resolve such, not necessarily the courts of law. _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sabelo gina Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workers and the Poor Hi Comrades, I want to begin by saying that we want the ANC that is a "disciplined force of the left". The contemporary question should then say, Post- Polokwane, have we achieved that in a manner that we want. My answer will be no, we must continue to use all legaly permissible channels to mobilise for the hegemony of the working class agenda in the ANC through active participation in the structures of the ANC. Numsa is happy that COSATU CEC was persuaded to make this campaign, a Federation campaign. We also know that the Governor will meet NUMSA leadership on 15 June 2009 in the offices wheer he refused to come out and receive the memorandum. I thank you, Sabelo Gina. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Mamphekgo,Steve (GPDPR) <[email protected]> wrote: I fully concur with comrade Kanego and Morgan on this matter. I think that there is high level of arrogance prevailing amongst some of us, as comrades, which creates a wrong impression that we have got sole title deed over this revolution. We need to begin to engage each other in an honest and comradely manner, and remain principled cadres throughout the course of our struggle. I do not completely share the sentiments expressed by Cde Gwede during the NUMSA Conference, but I believe that we must remain sober in addressing what we think to be wrong amongst ourselves, particularly as communists and members of the ANC. Two wrongs will never make right. It doesn't help to use this platform galling Cde Gwede as though we are dealing with some counter-revolutionary. Let us use our organizational structures and platforms in addressing the discontent we may have about one another. Let us accord Cde Gwede the necessary respect primarily as one of us, a comrade, one of the leaders of our revolution, senior leader of both the ANC and SACP. Chill maqabane! _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of morgan phaahla Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:45 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workers and the Poor Well said comrade and I wish everyone could take cue from your earnest appeal to recognise common variants of our movement led by the ANC. We always preach collectivism but when practised we cry foul and question the bona fide of the messenger. Let's practice what we preach in principle - not by preference or selectively. I trust cde Kanego has brought finality to this debate, unless otherwise there's an exigency. I remain, Morgan Phaahla "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - Joe Slovo --- On Thu, 6/4/09, Kanego, Clarence Thete <[email protected]> wrote: From: Kanego, Clarence Thete <[email protected]> Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Gwede Mantashe a Disapointment to the Workers and the Poor To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 4:01 PM Your views on Cde Gwede are flawed and a disrespect to a real Communist and Cadre. The African National Congress is not the SACP nor COSATU so Cde Gwede cannot be expected to be the Chairperson of SACP in the capacity of the Secretary General of the ANC. I repeat myself on this matter, ask Cde Gwede in a meeting of the SACP about his view on the issue he will tell you what the SACP stand is on the matter of strikes. We will be fooled to expect Cde Gwede to echo the SACP stand in the capacity of ANC. This also reflects that we may be influential in terms of policy thrust of the ANC as the leading partner of the Tripartite Alliance, however we are not yet the strongest dominating force hence there are contradicting forces within this movement. On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 5:55 PM, NT Zwane <[email protected] <http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > wrote: Cadres Revolutionary greetings. What is Cde Gwede doing It doesn't even sound well anymore if I call him a cadre or comrade. I thought he was a unionist and a communist now he really showed the workers where his loyalty is situated. The workers are not the ones who started or created this economic crisis, no as Alex Mashilo says this Capitalist Crisis. How can one of our own come with this Stalinist tendencies of silencing workers. Gwede Mantashe must apologise to the workers and to the members of the Party. Workers are engaged in a permannet revolution, Comrades should not abandon the working class at the convenience of the cruel, evil Capitalist as one of my cadres said when i engaged him on this matter. If Gwede Mantashe really respects SACP which is the vanguard of the working class and the workers themselves he must withdraw this uncalled for statement. I was really impressed by cde Blade and Vavi when they showed where their loyalty is situated. A true communist will never sell out the masses like what Gwede Mantashe is doing. He is feeling comfortable at Luthuli House and he has forgotten how badly and cruel the workers are being treated at the work place. How can one forget so fast I wonder if he still keeps the Marxist and Leninist classics in his office or house or now he is reading ADAM SMITH and HOW TO GET RICH QUICKER AND EASIER THROUGH EXPLOITATION OF WORKERS. Let us not comrades compromise the workers, ANC spoke of decent jobs before the election, and now when workers want to strike to protect this none decent jobs Mr Capitalist and former Communist Gwede Mantashe comes and insult them in their gathering it is really suprisng how a communist and a unionist can fastly forget the challenges that workers are facing day in day out at the work place. Amandla cadres this are just my views. This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. / Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. Disclaimer: This message may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 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