Cde Lee even though minor mistakes (such as NEC since the Party does not have such rather it has: Central Committee) might de-legitimize our argument but I fully agree with. You see failure to prevent minor mistakes has- in my view- led these comrades to reach a wrong conclusion i.e. the deploying the GS was unconstitutional. The objective and slow reading of the that very same clause indicates that the CC decides on the tasks assigned to the GS. And the last time, I checked the CC even issued a statement to this effect. So debating this issue is- for me- arrogance at best and at worse ignorance (camouflaged as constructive criticism). "Thetha Nzimande, Thetha Komanisi...Thina Sithwele Kanzima:" (loosly translated to Bua (Speak) Nzimande, Speal Communist...We are suffering) Defense for the GS Equal the For the Working Class Struggle. T.S. Zondi
>>> Brendan Lee <[email protected]> 11/12/2009 10:06 AM >>> comrade i feel you have missed the point. the constitution notes that full time is defined by CC. Now if you want to say the constitution was ignored, who would you like to start disciplinary action against.... the whole NEC maybe? just the people you don't like? in my view a communist shouldn't be rich, i i think it a good idea that GS does not accept a party wage, but that is his decision based on the party members vocalizations and his own voice, it should not be sugar coated in a false guise about an apparent debt to an institution. we are duty bound to defend he constitution, yet often in the media i hear very un-communist remarks come from Communists mouthes that is in violation of democratic centralism, that is a much more imporant issue then the working hours of our GS. in closing i have read VC's remarks closely and he focuses on an important issue, which is that a communist must be involved in the mass movement, this is something lenin spoke very clearly on and s represented in our constitution very strongly. VC argues that he is working full time as he is engageing in party work in line with this idea in the constitution. i would much rather see my GS engaged working class issues rather then sitting in an office preaching marx and having no concrete engagement with the working class. remember we are a vanguard party, not because we define ourselves as such, but because we earn the right to call ourselves that based on our ability to lead and analyze our political situation based on marxist leninist tools of analysis. you can't lead from the back, you must lead from the front, and our GS is at the front. long live the SACP forward with the struggle for socialism Brendan Lee On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, abisael Mohahabe <[email protected]> wrote: > Comrades > > Cde VC, This time you have lost it and missed the gist of the debate big > time - the matter that is raised by Cde Mdu/Lebese is very much correct, we > must debate internally and have a political solution to it, primarily > because this issue has got far more reaching implications - A leader that is > elected on a fulltime position is paid a monthly salary by the organisation > - does this implication seek to suggest that the GS is getting two salaries > against the backdrop that the working class is under siege due to global > capitalism meltdown. > > the constitution of the Party must be defended its bigger than all of us, we > are duty bound to defend it because we are principled and we understand and > respect the application of principles. If others debate on the basis of > personality and egos, then they are not principled enough to hold the much > respected position of the VC in the communist university. > > Amandla > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:26 PM, yclsa-eom-forum group < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > YCLSA Discussion Forum > >http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum?hl=en > > > [email protected] > > > Today's topics: > > > * Blade 'safe from drunk dreamers', Buti Manamela, Times - 12 messages, 10 > > authors > > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/t/6d3a38653ca08bd6?hl=en > > * An Opening in Consciousness! - 1 messages, 1 author > > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/t/f9cf6ad2b5d62614?hl=en > > * MoH Advisory Committee on NHI, appointments - 1 messages, 1 author > > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/t/cdccca56485a2971?hl=en > > > =========================================================================== === > > TOPIC: Blade 'safe from drunk dreamers', Buti Manamela, Times > >http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/t/6d3a38653ca08bd6?hl=en > > > =========================================================================== === > > > == 1 of 12 == > > Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 9:35 am > > From: Dominic Tweedie > > > Cde Clarence, > > > You are trying to tell us that the only reason you want to have a > > debate about the words "full time" at the Special National Congress is > > just so that you can reaffirm your support for Cde Blade? > > > In England they would say "Pull the other one, it's got bells on." > > > Maybe Ian Beddowes can explain that for you. > > > I suspect that if you go around telling people in South Africa that > > you want to debate the meaning of "full time" just so as to show your > > loyalty to Blade Nzimande, then you are going to make some people > > laugh, but if you push your luck too far, some of them might get quite > > annoyed with you. > > > I think you should keep your dreams to yourself in this case. > > > Yours in struggle, > > > Domza. > > > On 09/11/2009, Kanego, Clarence Thete <[email protected]> wrote: > > > VC > > > > In am seriously disaapointed in you Domza. The questions which are asked > > by > > > Comrade Mdu are as innocent as they expose the technicality of what we > > > assertion as the YCLSA and others including yourself that Cde Blade > > Nzimande > > > should and will continue as the GS of the SACP. Cde Domza it does not > > > require any deep understanding of the Polemics or Classics of Marx to > > > understand that the Constitution says that the postion of the GS is a > > full > > > time. The question that follows then will be what are the limitations or > > > implications of this position being fulltime whereas its occupant holds > > > another postion that is full time as well? Cde Domza, I have never seen > > any > > > of your writtings become so shallow as what you have gave as responses. > > What > > > makes matters worse is that all what you have said is that the debate > > should > > > not exist in the first place and I do not agree. We have been the > > frontiers > > > of struggle against anyone who suppresses debates in the movement we > > should > > > act like one! > > > > Comrades, why don't we find out as to what happened to the People's > > Republic > > > of Cuba when Cde Fidel was President and General Secretary of the > > Communist > > > Party of Cuba? How does the Communist Party of China handles this matter? > > My > > > take is that we are not waging a constitutional struggle here, we are > > waging > > > a class struggle. So the constitutionality of the matter can be handled. > > Our > > > struggle for power of the state resonates well with our GS being a > > minister > > > in the state. That is the angle I bring on this debate. > > > Lets debate! > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Dominic Tweedie > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> Cde Mduduzi, > > > >> I think that what you are indulging in is what is called sophistry. I > > can > > >> happily use that word because I am sure when you were taught how to > > debate > > >> you would have been taught what sophistry is. > > > >> I think that this sophistry of going to Turfloop to discover what is the > > >> meaning of "full time" has been exposed. That is never going to be the > > >> agenda of the Special National Congress. > > > >> You are trying to catch Dr Blade with a hook made of rubber. > > > >> You will not succeed. > > > >> Yours in struggle, > > > >> Domza, > > > >> VC > > > >> 2009/11/9 Mduduzi H Vilakazi <[email protected]> > > > >> Cde Lebese, > > > >>> I was taught how to debate and have deliberately shy away from > > mentioning > > >>> time because I understood what it meant. None of my posting has time, > > so > > >>> please chief, do not debate from the premise of your too forward mind. > > > >>> If anyone can be able to let me know what fulltime mean as enshrined > > (not > > >>> in any constitution but) in the constitution of the SACP. I still > > remain > > >>> that the debate to me is not on changing the GS. It is rather on our > > >>> understanding of fulltime. > > > >>> So, if your wondering mind provides you with wrong interpretation of my > > >>> posting, then do not attribute such statements or paranoia to me. I > > >>> remain > > >>> with the belief that should comrade blade be multi tasking and not be > > >>> fulltime as an official then he is unconstitutionally occupying that > > >>> office. > > > >>> I therefore request anyone who can interpret the constitution different > > >>> from my interpretation to provide such. I will not change my views on > > >>> peoples love for labelling. I have undergone many frustrating moments > > and > > >>> I > > >>> am able to stand my ground until convinced otherwise. Why dont comrades > > >>> learn to debate issues not persons. > > > >>> As it stands, the constitution should be amended or comrade Blade be > > >>> replaced. We should not be so irrational by ignoring the meaning of > > >>> constitutional implications in this regard. > > > >>> I remain. > > > >>> >>> "Lebese OE" <[email protected]> 09/11/2009 15:55 >>> > > > >>> Cdes, > > > >>> Let us try to remind cde Mdu that; > > > >>> 1. The GS is not an employee of some company that has its office > > >>> hours from 8 * 4. For your benefit the extract says: *The General > > >>> Secretary shall be the leading National Office Bearer of the SACP and > > a* > > >>> *full-time official* *under conditions of service determined by the > > CC**. > > >>> The General Secretary shall be an ex officio member of all party > > >>> structures **(Now this does not say 8 * 4 to me and am sure to you > > too)** > > >>> .* > > > >>> 2. From time to time we will need to make decisions based on > > >>> conditions at any given time. We need not read our Constitution as if > > we > > >>> are > > >>> lawyers and it is some kind of Legislation. > > > >>> 3. The constitution is not meant to block and delay us in > > achieving > > >>> our strategic objectives. > > > >>> 4. We are a party that has a huge responsibility of pushing the > > >>> agenda of the working class and doing **everything in > > >>> achieving**socialism in our lifetime. > > > >>> 5. This is the same leadership that played an important part in > > >>> literally forcing the wheels on the movement back in the right track. > > > >>> 6. Changing leadership of the Movement was just but one of the > > many > > >>> things that we needed to do and there is still a lot to be done so > > nobody > > >>> is > > >>> going to disturb our momentum. > > > >>> Our National leadership of YCL was spot on when it said through our > > >>> National Secretary that the GS is going nowhere. > > > >>> We will defend and support our leadership and will not be apologetic > > for > > >>> doing so. > > > >>> Oagile > > > == 2 of 12 == > > Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 10:31 pm > > From: Thembela Gazi > > > Comrades, > > > Long before the new Administration took office, I expressed concern post > > Polokwane around the availability of the Party leadership that we elected > > in > > PE at the 12th National Congress. This concern was born from the fact that > > the GS was in the NEC & NWC of the ANC; National Chairperson was now the > > Secretary General of our Movement - with all the responsibilities > > associated > > with such a deployment; the then National Deputy Chair late Cde Ncumisa > > Kondlo (may her soul rest in peace) was in the NEC & NWC); and now the > > National Treasurer is in the NEC, an MEC and now is the Provincial > > Chairperson of the ANC in the Eastern Cape; the Deputy General Secretary is > > now the Deputy Transport Minister. > > Several CC members are cabinet ministers. These are all demanding fulltime > > positions and as an aspiring communist I am proud of the role played by > > communists within the ANC in their own right as members of the ANC. These > > deployments point to the kind of leadership provided by Communists in our > > Movement and the general ANC membership realises this. > > > The current debate is sparked by the role of the GS within the current > > Administration as Minister responsible for Higher Education and Training a > > critical role for the development of the country, a key priority in the ANC > > Manifesto. Cde Blade the revolutionary, an educationsist I am sure the > > President could not > > ... > > read more * Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. 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