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which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/email_legalnotice ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cde Vanguard I think you must read Trotsky on permanent revolution and his critic on Stalin's Socialism in one country , maybe you will begin to understand what I am advancing here . You need not to be emotional and undermine our understanding of Marxism , anyway we are debating here and we need to enrich each other theoretically . Amandla Ranney Jomo Segage Credit and Revenue Management Tel : 013 6934158 Fax : 013 6934186 Pax : 82214158 Cell : 0824710085 The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of dialectics as a logical theory >>> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> 2010/04/07 11:34 PM >>> Idealism seems to be finding its expression within our SACP, the vanguard party of the working class, whilst contemporary bourgeois ideology is a weapon used against the revolutionary class. Distorting marxist-leninist philosophy can not and shall never be viewed as progressive. It doesnot nothing but to hold back the proletarian revolution. Narrow interpretation of historical processes and erasing the history of USSR, will never succeed in swaying us towards accepting capitalism as the only alternative social system. Referring to workers struggle as a factory floor process is tantamount to a lobby strategy for eternal bourgeois dominance over the revolutionary class and that is also promoting anarcho syndicalism. You sound like someone who thinks workers are irrelevant in class struggle, Marxist philosophy outlines categorically clear, the importance of workers in a class struggle. If you were to apply marxist-leninist tools of analysis, you will then be better positioned to understand the inherent conflict between the two main classes. Is it not the communist manifesto that outlines categorically clear that communists do not have an interest of their own apart from that of the working class. Any revolution that ends up with the bourgeoisie as the ruling class can never be seen as progressive, and does not deserve a defence from the proletariat. The immediate programme of the working class is not to get intervention from the state at the work place but to overthrow capitalism. A society that has people who live partly or wholly from the work of others, has people who owns the means of production and live by exploiting the class that does not, has members of a class that owns no means of production and live by selling their capacity to work to members of a class that does, can never be reffered to as progressive and worth to be defended. Hasn't capitalism outlived its usefulness to the mass of the people, isn't this the basis of a crisis within the capitalist system which brought into existance a movement to change the social system to a new one. You necodimously want us to believe fallacy and agree with you that socialism cannot be achieved/build in one country independently as if the Bolshevik revolution is just a mythological question. Lenin in further developing Marxist philosophy through practice and also guided by material conditions, managed to overthrow bourgeois supremacy in one country. The biggest mistake that we as communists consistently make, is to confuse the consolidation of bourgeois supremacy with the part to socialism. If ours is indeed a Marxist-Leninist, then ours is to understand that the only path to socialism is through a socialist revolution, through overthrowing bourgeois supremacy. As to what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union is as a result of Stalinist bureaucracy, not because socialism was build in one country independently. If by chance you think there is a possibility of liquidating capitalism internationally at once, then keep on live a dream because material conditions do not allow such a possibility at this juncture. The interconnected class contradiction on the other side are of course a South African reality, and the resolve of such is but a responsibility of the proletarian party not a multi class organisation. Multi class character means tolerance of classes but not their equality. According to communists, the bourgeois or exploiting class does not have any right to exist. Remember Lenin understood Marxism better than you and I, hence our party is marxist-leninist. Revisit both the ABC of materialist dialectics and Marxist-Leninist in order to reconsider your uncommunist position. The leader of the alliance does not in anycase bother to think of socialism. Fear of undertaking one's revolutionary task is equal to submission to a defeat by the reactionary bourgeois class. In our epoch, the ANC is not the ruling class but a fragment of the state, the ruling class is the bourgeois class. Defeat for capitalism is not equal to defeat of the ANC, hoping this clarifies your confusion since you are unawarely caught in the mist of bourgeois propaganda. Socialismo o muerte!!! Hasta siempre commandante, Avant Garde!!! Sent from my Nokia phone -----Original Message----- From: Ranney Segage Sent: 07/04/2010 11:51:06 Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; who must lead the Alliance? NB: This email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/email_legalnotice ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cde Vanguard The role of trade union is different from that of a party , the question of state power is a programme that should be carried by the party and the trade union shall have to assist the party in organising work place committees that will deal with workers issues at a factory level . That particular arrangement will have to be co ordinated with party cells on the ground so that where there is a need for state intervention , is will be easily co ordinated . Imagine a trade union contesting elections and it wins the election , it therefore suggest that the trade union will have to transform itself in to a political party .Workers must be members of the party in order to influence positions within the party ( Communist Party ) . The question two stages is a distortion of internationalism , the National Democratic Revolution has one stage , that of achieving National liberation and thereafter a socialist contraction ( class struggle) since under socialism there still exist classes until the total liquidation of capitalism .The question of permanent revolution is links to the internationalist view that seeks to liquidate capitalism at an international level , remember socialism cannot be build in one country but it is an international task. The moment a country is isolated , it cannot advance its complete socialist contraction . Yours for Socialism Ranney Jomo Segage Credit and Revenue Management Tel : 013 6934158 Fax : 013 6934186 Pax : 82214158 Cell : 0824710085 The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of dialectics as a logical theory >>> "jerrymokoena" <[email protected]> 2010/04/07 10:35 AM >>> Cde VC Ours Email truncated to 2,000 characters -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. 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