Cde Gugu, I accept your apology and furthermore respect your dignified response. It is not every day that cadres would openly apologise.
I fully understand where you are coming from but in the spirit of being a communist I believe that we must use the contradict and compliment strategy whenever we discuss issues. I believe that dialogue is key whilst arguments without content is noise which exposes reactionaries. I hope that as the momentun hots up to the ANCYL NGC which has been postponed for reasons beyond us we as the PYA should make sure that we engage ourselves in discussions which will help our ANCYL brothers choose the correct candidate for the position of president. We have witnessed a number of chaotic conferences taking place within the ANCYL which have proved to fruitless if not violent. The media has exposed the president of the ANCYL as being interference in conferences with regard to him wanting his own favoured candidates rather than the ones the masses want. Freedom has been fought for by our senior leaders and let us not spoil that. Our mandate is that we make sure that our movements are safeguarded from those who want to destroy them. I sincerely believe that we as members of the PYA have not been engaging like an alliance but have been engaging as enermies lately. There have been spats between the PYA structures. The YL uttering obsene statements about senior leaders within the SACP and as well as leaders of the YCL retaliating back at the youth league. The onus is upon us as youth leaders to make sure that we sustain the relations of the PYA and always know that we are not enermies but aligned structures which form government. The enermy here is COPE, DA and the rest of these other spaza shops which contest the ANC! The ANC must also know that within the alliance it should not be bossy but must open dialogue during decision making processes. That will enhance our debates about various issues. The Mbeki tenure as president of government and the ANC really put a strain on the alliance relations. The SACP and COSATU were sidelined and never given the chance to speak as partners. This however must end as we now have JZ. I believe that this was part and parcel of the reason why we elected a new president. We wanted transparency and openness during debates. Let us comrades begin today to tolerate one another and expose those who are a threat to our PYA. after exposing them we should eliminate them from the PYA!!! I remain a committed soldier of the ANCYL and YCL!!! On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Gugu Ndima <[email protected]> wrote: > > Cde. Sipho > > I did apologise, however I sincerely believe that what I intended to > caution against was highly misinterpreted and blown out of context > > Nevertheless, it was not intended to stir emotions or imply restrictions on > what should be spoken about. Its justifiable though, given issues around the > ANCYL are quiet critical and in these recent times and therefore there > might be ideological connotations attached to anything that might be said > in the context of the ANCYL. You are correct the ANCYL is ours and we are > all members > > Communist regards > > Cde. Gugu > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:33 AM, sipho shandu <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Greetings Cdes, >> >> I partly agree with gugu on one issue and that is not to use the forum as >> a platform to ganner support for internal contestations but use it to >> discuss and analyse issues which affect us and south africa at large. >> >> I also contradict her statements in not monitoring the YL. Why not? >> Arent they aligned with us? Indeed they are...so whatever they do in the >> public eye or in decision making we ought to agree or disagree with them >> using this forum which is a formidable powerful tool. >> >> I dont believe that there are set guidelines within this forum which >> details what is to be discussed and what should not be discussed. Cadre GU >> must however apologise and crocodile from this debate. We as the members >> shall continue to speak on whatever issue that we deem appropriate to be >> discussed within this forum may it be sport, weather or whatsoever! >> >> Censorship is not good in any environment as it favors some and >> marginalises others. Lokk at what is currently happening within our brothers >> in the ANCYL and learn a lesson. >> >> Thank you and I hope we feel free to engage in various discussions that we >> feel relevant. >> >> regards, >> >> Cde General Shonalanga. >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Gugu Ndima <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Greetings Cde. Sithembele, >>> >>> The message was evidently mis-interpreted and it was in no way to say >>> that there is some distorted ambitions to censor anything >>> >>> It was simply to say lets ensure that we continue the spirit of >>> constructive engagement including engaging on matters relating to the ANCYL >>> and our progressive formations within the PYA as well as the Alliance... >>> thjre has been a growing tendency within the forum where some members of the >>> discussion forum used the platform for their internal battles at times this >>> is not recent. >>> >>> Possibly the timing of raising the matter might have seemed >>> contradictory. >>> >>> I apologise if it seems as if this might have been a personal attack, >>> however it was meant to ensure that the discussion forum remains what its >>> primarily meant to do and that is to provoke debate and enhance our >>> endoctrination of marxist-lennist theory, inter alia >>> >>> I remain >>> >>> Cde. Gugu >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:47 PM, sithembele senti < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Well said Cde President. >>>> >>>> Cde Gugu greetings to you too, Its correct that the forum belongs to >>>> us,the membership of YCLSA, however the forum,s purpose is not to discuss >>>> YCLSA issues/matters as such, because there are constitutional structures >>>> of >>>> YCLSA to do that as you may well be aware. the objective of the forum, I >>>> argue, is to debate issues that concerns our body politic, give them proper >>>> analysis, conceptualize as to what is their meaning to our revolutionary >>>> struggle and build consensus around what revolutionary coarse of action to >>>> take, >>>> >>>> For a record, Cde Gugu, cosatu also posts (correctly so) on every day >>>> basis on the very forum issues they think are of the importance to young >>>> communists like us to note and debate if necessary and you never say that >>>> is >>>> wrong or claimed ownership to the forum like you do now. >>>> >>>> So please Cdes if you happen to be irritated by a particular post, >>>> ignore it and read those that interests your appetite. Tolerance is key to >>>> us as communists. >>>> >>>> By the way ANCYL is a an intergral part of the ANC, a vehicle by which, >>>> chief amongst the others, we drive our National Democratic Revolution, so >>>> to >>>> say that the state of the ANCYL is an unwarranted post in this forum is >>>> wrong and totally embarrasing for a communist in a leadership position like >>>> you, thank you. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:22:40 +0200 >>>> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] A RESPONSE TO CDE DEPUTY PRESIDENT >>>> ANDILE LUNGISA >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> Gugu, >>>> >>>> You are behaving like Phil Molefe now, what is wrong with people posting >>>> their statement. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Sabelo >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/14/10, *Gugu Ndima* <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings cadres, >>>> >>>> Can we kindly respect that this is a YCLSA discussion forum >>>> >>>> We respect that we are equally members within PYA structures, but this >>>> is not a platform for lambasting other formations. >>>> >>>> There has been consistent publication of Youth League statements and so >>>> on. >>>> >>>> Its imperative that we keep abreast with issues, however lets minimise >>>> turning the Discussion forum into a YL monitoring tool and a platform to >>>> perpetuate propaganda around the YL >>>> >>>> Lets continue to constructively engage on issues cadres >>>> >>>> Communist regards >>>> >>>> Cde. Gugu >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:57 PM, sithembele senti < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ****** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *ANCYL Limpopo* >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> *Media Statement* >>>> >>>> (For immediate release) >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> *“**Ill-discipline can never be discipline yesterday, ill-discipline >>>> today and discipline tomorrow**”* >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> The ANCYL Provincial Executive Committee in Limpopo has noted with shock >>>> the so called statement released yesterday by the Deputy President Cde >>>> Andile Lungisa distancing himself from any leadership contest and >>>> denouncing >>>> the ill-discipline. We must at the outset indicate that as things stands >>>> now >>>> there is no process we know of to nominate candidates for leadership >>>> positions in the NEC of our organization and therefore the issue of contest >>>> does not arise. Secondly that since there is no any branch that has >>>> nominated Cde Deputy President or any other comrade for any position >>>> therefore he has no basis to distance himself from any contestation for >>>> leadership position. The development does not come as a surprise because we >>>> have experienced these types of tendencies in the movement in the recent >>>> past wherein leaders are cajoled to sign-off unwarranted public statements >>>> to humiliate them and ruin their prospects of ascending to positions of >>>> leadership. Lastly, that we do not need the permission of any individual to >>>> decide on our choice of candidates for leadership positions. Nevertheless, >>>> we wish to reaffirm our full confidence in the Deputy President until the >>>> 2011 national conference. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We further wish to state that indeed we agree with the Deputy President >>>> when he argues that *“as a disciplined member of the organization, I >>>> hold a view that those who take the ANC Youth League to court are >>>> ill-disciplined, because disciplined members of the organization discuss >>>> issues within the organization and accept all the principles of democratic >>>> centralism*”. However, we must state that this latest development was >>>> introduced into the organization by our national leadership in April 2010 >>>> during the infamous Makhado conference wherein leadership opened a case >>>> against one of their own that ultimately ended up in the court of law. A >>>> wrong and dangerous precedent was set by national leadership which Cde >>>> Andile Lungisa is part of. The court case against our Provincial Deputy >>>> Secretary Cde Thandi Moraka was reaffirmed by the last NEC meeting presided >>>> over by the ANCYL presidency. Therefore, if there is any finger intending >>>> to >>>> point at ill-discipline - that finger must be well directed. Ill-discipline >>>> can never be discipline yesterday, ill-discipline today and discipline >>>> tomorrow, etc. There must be consistency. We can only hope and wish that >>>> the >>>> Deputy President is the legitimate owner of this serious statement made out >>>> of own will. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We further wish to reaffirm our undiluted support for the application >>>> that our Provincial Chairperson Cde Lehlogonolo Masoga made before the >>>> Johannesburg High Court. We will mobilize our members to pledge solidarity >>>> with him on 13th July 2010, primarily because he represents our views >>>> and aspiration. He is a victim of a well orchestrated agenda to eliminate >>>> key comrades from the organization that was launched during the Makhado >>>> conference. We fill fight until we finally defeat this agenda. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Issue by the ANC Youth League Limpopo >>>> >>>> *Contact: * >>>> >>>> *Media Enquiries: Eric Hlungwani: >>>> 072 113 9771 * >>>> >>>> *09/07/10* >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up >>>> now.<https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gugu Ndima >>>> +27 76 783 1516 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cedric Sabelo Gina >>>> NUMSA President >>>> NUMSA Head Office >>>> 153 Bree Street >>>> Newtown, Johannesburg >>>> 2021 >>>> Tel: 011-6891700 >>>> Fax: 011-8344320 >>>> Mobile: +27836335381 >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it >>>> now.<https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gugu Ndima >>> +27 76 783 1516 >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>> to this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> > > > > -- > Gugu Ndima > +27 76 783 1516 > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
