Thank you Cde kwena . It now makes a lot of sense. Cde George
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:06:52 
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the key to
 economic expansion

Amandla, Cde Alex!

Herewith attached is a one-page excerpt from Chapter 14 of Value, Price and
Profit, containing the words that you have quoted.

Value, Price and Profit is altogether a historic document. It was a talk
that Marx gave to the effective executive committee of the First
International, soon after it was founded, and when it could have been
derailed by the petty-bourgeois fantasies of "Citizen Weston". For the
story, see the MIA Introduction,
*here<http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/introduction.htm>
*.

The other attached document is a shortened 12-page-booklet version that I
prepared for political education purposes.

The full document can be found
*here<http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm>
*.


VC


On 16 October 2011 07:50, <[email protected]> wrote:

> Can there ever be economic freedom without socialism, without an end to
> economic exploitation? Over and above reformism what is economic freedom in
> a capitalist mode of production? Is it true we have political freedom in SA?
> Can there ever be political freedom without the working class being the
> ruling class and organised as the state?
>
> In the article Value, Price and Profit (pardon me if I didn't properly
> capture the title of the article. The last time I read it was in the late
> 1990s) Marx in advance deals a blow with the arguments on wages as advocated
> by "DHM" (called so by the VC). Marx concludes in the article that the
> structural limitation of trade unions (the ones he observed) was to make
> raising the level of wages the main content in the context where there's in
> science what we called an 'inverse relationship' between wages and profit.
> The conclusion Marx points out, which "DHM"'s logic contradicts, is that the
> wages system must be abolished. Actually, "DHM"'s argument is an argument
> for building capitalism, so long as there are so-called good wages to
> facilitate market buying and selling (what Marx in Vol. I and II of Capital
> represents with the formula M-C'-M'). This logic by "DHM" represents
> complete contradiction to what Marx analyses as exploitation in Capital Vol.
> when dealing with the production of surplus value. Regardless of wage levels
> there's exploitation of labour when a capitalist appropriates the surplus
> value created by labour. The silence of "DHM" about this point indeed must
> be assuring to capitalists that the Limpopo's Finance MEC is championing
> their programme. What must come to an end, is exploitation. In Capital Vol.
> Marx addresses the issue of wages and crisis of capitalism. We hear nothing
> from "DHM" about this.
>
> There are many things missing in "DHM"'s article, but some of these
> reflects inexperience in trade union work. He call on the left, progressive
> trade unions included, to condemn clothing and textile workers union. What's
> this? I wonder if "DHM" wondered to contact the union to gain clarity. The
> arguments by "DHM" on the union are not only abstract, they are just empty
> of both experience and appreciation of the work by the union in a sector for
> over the past 17 years.
>
> It's said it's easier said than done. It's easy to promote personality cult
> and factionalism with phrases such as there's lack of political will. It's
> easy to abandon class analysis (scientific) in favour of personality cult,
> factionalism and associated forms of liberalism.
>
> What's missing too, from "DHM" is the Leninist part of our Marxism, i.e.
> Marxism-Leninism. There's absolutely no analysis of imperialism, for
> intance, in "DHM"'s work. The impact of imperialism is not seen, "only lack
> of political will".
>
> We who are in unions know we made some achivements, but after that a
> company shut down and went to another country. These are the challenges we
> are dealing with, presently.
>
> I don't want to express any view at the moment on the clothing and textile
> union. It's best to continue working by being in contact with the union.
>
> Let's all read Marx. Otherwise we will be taken advantage of.
>
> Empty talk is cheap!
>
> Let's continue to mobilise for the overthrow of capitalism, let's use every
> battle workers have, including on wages, against capitalists, to press ahead
> our struggle to have capitalism overthrown. And let's respect, especially
> those of us who are in or work with unions, workers' mandates and the
> principle of worker control.
>
> Empty talk is cheap!
>
> AlexM
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Setja Diphoko" <[email protected]>
> Sender: [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:35:11
> To: <[email protected]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the key
> to
>  economic expansion
>
> Requesting permission to engage
>
>
> Lesetja Diphoko
>                                                      "Sent via my
> BlackBerry"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Sender: [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:19:50
> To: [email protected]<[email protected]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the key
> to
>  economic expansion
>
> Hands off David Masondo
>
> Sent from iPad
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> Sent:  15/10/2011 11:11:17
> Subject:  Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the key
> to economic expansion
>
> Haai VC, but some r kicking the man not the "phony" presentation and erich
> it to the right direction...
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>
> Sender: [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:07:34
> To: <[email protected]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the key
> to
>  economic expansion
>
> We are engaging. With heavy artillery.
>
> If you are afraid of artillery, stay under cover.
>
>
> VC
>
>
>
>
> On 15 October 2011 11:01, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Will be it wrong of us to engage the subject, regardless???
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: * <[email protected]>
> > *Sender: * [email protected]
> > *Date: *Sat, 15 Oct 2011 05:07:28 +0000
> > *To: *<[email protected]>
> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected]
> > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the
> > key to economic expansion
> >
> > "The state and business elite", so says a member of the state elite
> > responsible for money, defining own duties. But are these the duties of
> > every one in the state?
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: * [email protected]
> > *Sender: * [email protected]
> > *Date: *Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:33:16 +0000
> > *To: *<[email protected]>
> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected]
> > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the
> > key to economic expansion
> >
> > Once again Masondo is using his pseudo communist politicking 2 score
> cheap
> > political goals and this appease capital that has co-opted him 2 its
> fold.
> > He abuses the marxist knowledge with impunity whilst he partakes in the
> same
> > exercise of conspicuous consumption either directly or indirectly.
> Despite
> > the truth inherent in his article I can state his conclusion is driven by
> > hate and a shameful exercise on his part 2 deface the SACP of its
> > revolutionary disposition. He has no moral authority 2 raise the some
> truths
> > found in his article at all. Mr Masondo cannot re-write history
> regardless
> > of his influence n money due 2 his alligience 2 da limpopo mafia,
> historory
> > can be re-written, the apartheid regime failed despite the trillions of
> > rands it invested 2 re-write history simply because the facts of life are
> > just so stubborn. The fact is that SACP has a role to place in the
> > transformation on the country's economy no matter what our bankrolled
> > scholar and friends may wish! Cde George
> >
> > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: * "Trevor Kekana" <[email protected]>
> > *Sender: * [email protected]
> > *Date: *Fri, 14 Oct 2011 13:48:43 +0200
> > *To: *<[email protected]>
> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected]
> > *Subject: *[YCLSA Discussion] DAVID MASONDO: Equality of income the key
> to
> > economic expansion
> >
> >  Please note the closing remark..****
> >
> > [image: Business Day]****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > LEVELS of income inequality are rapidly growing in SA. About 48% of the
> > population earns less than R11 a day, while whites earn eight times more
> > than Africans.****
> >
> > A Gini coefficient of zero signifies perfect equality. The South African
> > Gini coefficient is 0,69, while Brazil’s is 0,56. This clearly shows S A
> is
> > drifting towards perfect inequality.****
> >
> > Surprisingly, the recent 5% salary increase for public representatives
> and
> > judges, and textile union Sactwu’s concession of a 30% wage cut for new
> > labour entrants into the textile industry, did not attract much outrage
> from
> > the left. ****
> >
> > Entrepreneurs produce for the market to earn a profit. South African
> > entrepreneurs largely earn a profit by selling raw materials and some
> > manufactured goods for export to developed and developing countries with
> > lower production costs, such as China and India. In turn, we import
> > machinery, semifinished and finished goods.****
> >
> > The state generates revenue from taxation, part of which pays high
> salaries
> > to politicians and bureaucrats. ****
> >
> > High-income inequality in the context of a small industrial base
> constrains
> > the ability of the South African market to widen. The expansion of the
> > market is determined by demand from wages and profits. The higher the
> profit
> > and wage rates, the more entrepreneurs are likely to expand investment ,
> > thus buying more inputs and labour.****
> >
> > Higher wage rates increase workers’ consumption, thus providing positive
> > feedback for entrepreneurs to invest in production. In the long run, this
> > may lead to economic development.****
> >
> > State and business elites tend to spend their high incomes on luxurious
> > consumption, while the majority of our population cannot afford this.
> ****
> >
> > Low wage rates imply a lower demand for mass consumption, hence low
> > production. Since the elites are few, entrepreneurs are likely to produce
> > fewer products because the market is small.****
> >
> > The luxurious consumption patterns do not manifest only in differential
> > sources of income and inequality, but are also a reflection of the
> state’s
> > inability to discipline luxurious consumption. Measures that discourage
> > luxurious consumption in favour of mass consumption can grow the economy
> and
> > improve the living conditions of the poor.****
> >
> > Higher wages will inevitably lead to mass consumption as opposed to
> elitist
> > consumption of luxurious goods, thus widening the market. This will
> increase
> > the economic incentive for business to invest, thus growing the
> economy.**
> > **
> >
> > Policy instruments to curb high levels of income and luxurious
> consumption
> > among elites may also generate a sense that the burden of the economic
> > crisis is not placed on the shoulders of the poor. ****
> >
> > Strict control of capital outflow is also necessary to ensure that the
> > investable surplus stays in the country. In South Korea, international
> > financial transactions are made through state banks. SA does not take
> > extreme measures such as those in South Korea, where illegal capital
> flight
> > is punishable by death. But policy sticks to keep the investable surplus
> in
> > SA must be found.****
> >
> > Locking investable surplus into the national economy will not inherently
> > lead to productive consumption. Applied on its own, this instrument will
> not
> > curb the elites from engaging in luxurious consumption within the nation
> > state. This is why there is a need for anti-luxurious consumption tariffs
> > and domestic taxes, as well as investment imposed through an
> interventionist
> > industrial policy aimed at bolstering economic development.****
> >
> > Income earning is determined by ownership of economic and political
> assets.
> > The principal assets that enable the state and business elites to
> maintain
> > these income inequalities are economic power and incumbency of state
> office.
> > ****
> >
> > The only asset that workers have in order to claim the surplus they
> produce
> > is their ability to organise and fight for their interests. It remains to
> be
> > seen if the leftist organisations are up to the task of organising not
> only
> > against income inequalities, but also for the working people to win
> > political power and for the equitable redistribution of strategic
> economic
> > assets. ****
> >
> > The economic crisis requires bold leadership, political will and
> militant,
> > working- class movements to tackle the structural inequalities rooted in
> the
> > unequal ownership of the key strategic resources. ****
> >
> > *Unfortunately, we do not have all these in SA. So business can relax. *
> >
> > • Masondo is a South African Communist Party central committee member and
> > Limpopo treasury MEC****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=155840****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
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