Thanks Mbali for your fair your judgment on the matter. Mine was really to engage with the views as shared by Lazola rather than dealing with the author. I hope Sive will one day appreciate that and he will rest assured that the house is safe.
Regards On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 9:52 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > Haai Mbali u r doing the same thing u r stopping me from... Why isolate > Madala? > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: *[email protected] > *Sender: *[email protected] > *Date: *Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:26:15 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *[email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the > Congress Movement? > > @Sive > Aphiwe is not attacking Lazola but attacking his views and exposing the > weakness of his argument. Which is no different to what other comrades have > done. I think your isolation of Aphiwe is unfair buti wam. > > Ta > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > ------------------------------ > *From: *[email protected] > *Sender: *[email protected] > *Date: *Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:11:51 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *[email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the > Congress Movement? > > My problem with Aphiwe is that he wants to "burn a house, while we want to > kill a mouse". The "devil" is not Lazola...it's malema... > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: *[email protected] > *Sender: *[email protected] > *Date: *Wed, 7 Mar 2012 16:49:04 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *[email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the > Congress Movement? > > Ubambe iposition qabane, "he didn't let the devil run away with the > gospel" he was to the point. > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: *[email protected] > *Sender: *[email protected] > *Date: *Wed, 7 Mar 2012 15:06:41 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *[email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the > Congress Movement? > > Siboza, kubanjwe ntoni so that nathi sibambe qabane??? > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: *[email protected] > *Sender: *[email protected] > *Date: *Wed, 7 Mar 2012 09:16:55 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *[email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the > Congress Movement? > > Well said cde Aphiwe, > > I could not have said it any better myself, uyi bambile Shlalo > > I thank you > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: *Aphiwe Bewana <[email protected]> > *Sender: *[email protected] > *Date: *Wed, 7 Mar 2012 11:06:34 +0200 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *[email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the > Congress Movement? > > Malema belong(ed) to the ANC > > > > I have gone thru comrade Lazola’s input and could not help to draw a > conclusion that comrade author is attempting to do two core things: 1. > attempts to dissociate the embattled youth leader (Mr Malema) with the > ideological scope or framework of the ANC, and 2. attempts to predict his > ideological home through finding few peripheral links with Pan Africanism. > All and all the attempt is to justify why his participation as an ANC > member may be short-lived. > > > > The fundamental limitation with cde Lazola’s input is that the same issues > that he raises as determining that Mr Malema’s ideological standing ought > to be characterized as Pan Africanist can be said to several other leaders > in the ANC currently. This can go to an extent to saying the delegation of > ANCYL in previous conference which has been agreeing on the very policy > views which are now said to be Pan Africanist, was a Pan Africanist > delegation. Here I do not even want to invoke a debate the dynamics and > interplay of personal ideology and organizational standpoints. > > > > I completely disagree with the characterization of Julius as Pan > Africanist on basis of few tangential pronouncements. The avenue which I > saw as better explaining the whole fiasco around the Jujumania > (conceptually and ideological), is the whole issue of the New Tendencywhose > key > tactic to use of strident nationalist (and sometimes Africanist) rhetoric > to justify a patronage politics that hopes to use money to gain position > and position to gain more money. That ought to be our point of departure > in attempting to deal with the New Tendency as embodiment of unscrupulous > petty bourgeois tendency engulfing our liberation politics rather than as > object or person. The core issue is not Malema per se but the unscrupulous > culture that is spreading, which can be replicated in any youth leader in > the ANC. > > > > In cautioning against dangers of rhetoric by opportunists, Vladimir Lenin > writes *‘there are, however, moments, when a question must be raised > sharply and things given their names, the danger being that otherwise > irreparable harm may be done to the party and the revolution’. * > > > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Juma Ali <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Great article Cde. Lazola. >> >> My main problem though is whether Malema's problems in the ANC are due to >> his perceived Pan-African radicalism or due merely to political expediency. >> For sure, one of the charges that remained was that of bringing the ANC to >> disrepute with his comments about the regime in Botswana which were seen to >> be at odds with ANC policies, but the merits of ascribing ideological >> differences to his disciplinary process are debatable against those of mere >> political expediency. >> >> Juma. >> >> *From:* Lazola Ndamase <[email protected]> >> *To:* [email protected]; yclsa-eom-forum < >> [email protected]> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:01 AM >> *Subject:* [YCLSA Discussion] Does Malema belong to the ANC and the >> Congress Movement? >> >> Does Malema belong to the ANC? >> >> The ANC is not ideologically pure. It would be dishonest to suggest so. >> Any way as a multi-class organization it is bound never to be. Any national >> liberation movement worth its salt has a responsibility to attract the >> broadest sections of the oppressed in order to succeed in its struggle. In >> order to ensure unity within its ranks whilst maintaining its broad appeal, >> it has a responsibility to set out an all inclusive, less stringent >> ideological perspective whilst at the same time allowing enough space for >> various ideological standpoints to contest for hegemony within. >> >> However, although tolerant to divergent ideological standpoints within >> its ranks it has a responsibility to draw the line, or set broad parameters >> about its ideological standing. That’s exactly what the ANC did in relation >> to African chauvinism, or what in a more sophisticated sense is termed >> Pan-Africanism. This does not mean our movement believes Pan-Africanists >> are counter-revolutionary, it just believes that they are not as >> progressive as it would prefer. >> >> Contrary to the ANC, comrade Malema is not a progressive nationalist, >> something to which the ANC has evolved to base its Africanism; in contrast >> he is a Pan-Africanist. The primacy of his ideas is Pan-Africanist rather >> than Progressive Nationalist. His ideas resonate well with those of other >> Pan-Africanist youth organizations in the continent which have openly >> declared support for him such as Zanu-PF and the liberation movement of >> Tanzania Chama cha Mapinduzi. This is in contrast to the silent treatment >> he has received from our traditional allies such as Frelimo of Mozambique >> and the MPLA of Angola. >> >> In him, Pan-Africanists in the continent saw themselves. His >> Pan-Africanism is also the reason why the term “African Child” has found >> new popularity since he became President of the ANCYL. Before him, by the >> way, this term did not belong to the vocabulary of the Congress Movement >> but to that of the Pan-Africanists such as the PAC, AZAPO and other similar >> movements. >> >> Another term barely used in the movement popularized by Malema is the >> word “settler”, a word Julius brought us from the Pan-Africanist >> dictionary. The Congress Movement barely used this term, even in our songs, >> or chants. The closest an ANC member got to this would be through the use >> of the word Boer. Note, even the most controversial chant done in the >> movement “kill the Boer: the farmer”, still does not contain the word >> “settler”. “One settler, one bullet” was not a slogan of the ANC but that >> of the PAC, and our cadres were not cultured to speak in this way, hence we >> could not chant in this way. >> >> The fact that he is Pan-Africanist, does not suggest that comrade >> Malema’s ideas are not left leaning, or less radical, in actual fact, he is >> a bloody radical one. His Pan-Africanism, is what I believe drives his >> radicalism, despite the fact that his location in class society should have >> driven him otherwise. It is not in spite of his Pan-Africanism but because >> of it that he is so radical. Although stinking rich, he being an “African >> Child” cannot bear to see the impoverishment of another “African Child” >> particularly while he, the rich one, is surrounded by “white settlers” in >> rich society. This is completely painful for the “African child”. The fact >> that comrade Malema, was born from an African working class family >> strengthens this point of view, particularly his idea that the enemy is not >> the capitalist per se, which he himself is, but the “white capitalist”. >> >> His infatuation with “white" monopoly capital does not stem only from the >> ANC’s characterization of monopoly capital as a threat to development but >> arises from his own realization that it is the face of white opulence. The >> fact that monopoly capital to him, has a color is one other interesting >> fact. Of course, I am not denying that Monopoly capital is largely white, >> but the fact that in Malema’s eyes it seems not all Monopoly Capital is an >> enemy of the revolution but only assumes that role because its white. Even >> on the question of conspicuous consumption. Comrade Malema often retorts >> whether it should only be white youth that should dress in a particular way >> or not? He makes this point at every turn: even lamenting that rich “white” >> boys drive expensive cars in Sandton and nobody complains. >> >> By the way, Pan-Africanism is not just radical but also uncompromising. >> Comrade Malema is cut from the same cloth. My view though is that, its >> South African version is unscientific. It will never be able to resolve the >> race question in South Africa but would exacerbate it. Of course, when the >> struggle for liberation is still in its infancy, Pan-Africanism or Black >> Consciousness is necessary to uplift the self-worth of the oppressed and >> rouse them to stand up against their oppression. But it usually can go no >> further. >> >> Comrade Julius Malema should not have joined the ANC in the first place. >> He does not belong there and he does not share its ideas. Of course, for >> numerical purposes we must be thankful that he chose to join the ANC rather >> than the PAC or AZAPO. He must be more thankful that his Pan-Africanist >> tendencies were not discovered early on before he could rise up the >> organizational ladder. For this, he must thank our now pathetic recruitment >> system which holds that anyone with a membership form and fee is almost a >> member. >> >> Surely, I am not suggesting that our movement should not have looked to >> the Africanists to recruit. Anyway, the brightest in the liberation >> movement are often located in these organizations, but it is an indictment >> on our movement that it has not been able to win comrade Julius Malema over >> to its viewpoint since it recruited him at the age of 9 as he would have us >> believe. When an organization arrives at this realization it has no choice >> but to let go of its recruitee, but this has to be a political function >> rather than a Disciplinary one. -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >> to this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. 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