Anthony, No, you have it just backwards. Shikantaza can be the result of daydreaming or exasperation…Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:07 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas Bill, Shikantaza (zhiguan dazuo) is literally 'just sit'. Samadhi. clear mind, daydreaming or exasperation can be the result of shikandaza. Anthony --- On Tue, 23/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 23 November, 2010, 7:47 AM Anthony, Thanks for the translation. I was definitely told the Japanese word ‘shikantaza’ meant ‘clear mind’. See the quotes attributed to Rujing and Dogen Zenji in the definition in my post below. Perhaps it is an extreme interpretation of ‘just sit’ which means you are just sitting and not thinking or doing anything else. That works for me. What is your opinion on the similarity between the terms ‘shikantaza’ and ‘samadhi’? Do you think they are trying to describe the same experience? …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:02 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas Bill, I almost agree in a wholesale way all you say below, except for one: shikantaza as: .. (只管打坐?) is a Chinese word denoting 'just sit (formally)', It is just a technique, and the other ideas you state in relation are 'derived meanings'. Anthony --- On Mon, 22/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 22 November, 2010, 10:47 PM ED, My formal teaching has been in Japanese Zen Buddhism so most of the terms of which I am familiar are Japanese. These are my understanding of some of the terms we've been using: Kensho: A brief and temporary glimpse of Buddha Nature. Satori: Essentially the same as kensho but a much more long-lasting and persistent awareness of Buddha Nature. Shikantaza: 'Clear Mind', pure awareness. I call this state 'Just THIS!'. Clear Mind with Awareness = Buddha Mind/Buddha Nature. Wikipedia defines shikantaza as: .. (只管打坐?) ... a Japanese term for zazen introduced by Rujing and associated most with the Soto school of Zen Buddhism, but which also is "the base of all Zen disciplines." According to Dōgen Zenji, shikantaza i.e. resting in a state of brightly alert attention that is free of thoughts, directed to no object, and attached to no particular content—is the highest or purest form of zazen, zazen as it was practiced by all the buddhas of the past. Samadhi: I am familiar with this term only from reading. It always seemed to me to be the same as shikantaza. Wikipedia defines samadhi as: "...a non-dualistic state of consciousness in which the consciousness of the experiencing subject becomes one with the experienced object, and in which the mind becomes still, one-pointed or concentrated though the person remains conscious. In Buddhism, it can also refer to an abiding in which mind becomes very still but does not merge with the object of attention, and is thus able to observe and gain insight into the changing flow of experience." The Thai's use the term 'samadhi' to refer to Theravada Buddhist meditation. They have a different word 'glai-glia' to refer to other types of mediation. >From my experience Clear Mind/shikantaza (samadhi?) and kensho/satori are >virtually the same. The only difference is that kensho/satori denotes the >point that you become AWARE of Clear Mind (samadhi?). So if you have to put >them in some kind of time sequence, first there is Clear Mind without >awareness, then Kensho/Satori which is the realization/awareness of Clear >Mind, and then Clear Mind continues with awareness. Koans, in my experience, are used as a tool to stop the rational, discriminating mind's activities. It is only in this state than kensho/satori can occur. There are other ways to stop the discriminating mind such as just sitting (zazen). Eventually you will reach the state of shikantaza (samadhi?) in which a pure awareness can arise. This I call Buddha Mind/Buddha Nature. All of the above occurs IN THE ABSENCE of thinking/rationality/cognition. Part of zen practice AFTER kensho is to re-integrate thinking/rationality/cognition WITHOUT forming attachments to the concepts generated by thinking. Having said all this I have to add the following caveat which is a paraphrase of Genjo's caveat on the 5 subdivisions of koans: 'any number of subdivisions and terms describing zen practice and awareness states could be devised, and all are ultimately meaningless. Zen is everyday life. Zen is nothing special. Zen is "Only Don't Know!". Zen is Just THIS!' This is my experience. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 6:50 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas Bill, Dr James Austin in his book 'Zen-Brain Reflection', labels the states that occur after the makyo states but prior to kensho-satori states as absorption or Samadhi states, and asserts that these are not kensho-satori states. These Samadhi states as decribed by Dr Austin appear to be none other than the states labeled in Theravada buddhism as Jhana states. See article below on Jhana states. --ED Definitions of jhana in theravada on the Web: • JhÄna (PÄli: à¤à¤¨; Sanskrit: धà¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤¨ DhyÄna) is a meditative state of profound stillness and concentration. It is sometimes taught as an abiding in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention,characterized by non-dual consciousness. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhana_in_Theravada Excerpt from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhana_in_Theravada "DhyÄna in the early sutras In the early texts, it is taught as a state of collected, full-body awareness in which mind becomes very powerful and still but not frozen, and is thus able to observe and gain insight into the changing flow of experience.[1][2] Later Theravada literature, in particular the Visuddhimagga, describes it as an abiding in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention,[3] characterized by non-dual consciousness.[4] The Buddha himself entered jhÄna, as described in the early texts, during his own quest for enlightenment, and is constantly seen in the suttas encouraging his disciples to develop jhÄna as a way of achieving awakening and liberation.[5][6][7] One key innovative teaching of the Buddha was that meditative absorption must be combined with liberating cognition.[8] Just before his passing away, The Buddha entered the jhÄnas in direct and reverse order, and the passing away itself took place after rising from the fourth jhÄna.[9] The Buddha's most well-known instructions on attaining jhana are via mindfulness of breathing, found in the Ä€nÄpÄnasati Sutta and elsewhere." For definitions of Samadhi, see: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Asamadhi --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote: > > Siska, > > In your post below what you refer to as the “…un-enlightened mind…†is > what I usually call the ‘discriminating mind’ or ‘rational mind’ or > ‘dualistic mind’. And yes, koans cannot be resolved by using this mind. > They can only be resolved/responded to from Buddha Mind which is what remains > after the discriminating mind drops away. > > Conventionally you should say that it takes a really accomplished teacher and > a good student to properly use this technique; but a neither a teacher nor > koan study is absolutely necessary to realize Buddha Nature or experience > Samadhi (which are pretty much the same thing). All you really need to do is > sit (zazen) and quiet your mind (cease the workings of your discriminating > mind). A good teacher and koan study can certainly help do this, but as I > said are not absolutely necessary. > > …Bill! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5638 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5639 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5639 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5639 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5640 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5640 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5640 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5640 (20101122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
