These claims have been effectively disproved whenever investigated so far as I know.
Edgar On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > Edgar, > > A critical factor on OBE is that some claim they have seen objects that can > only be viewed from a position different from their real location. I read a > few that say that was the case. However, most reports are vague about that. > > Whether it is supernatural or not, what is the scientific explanation for > 'kensho' and 'satori'? Are they just hallucination? Or other forms of self > cheating? > > Anthony > > --- On Tue, 13/9/11, Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote: > > From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Side Effects of Religious Belief > NBEs & OBEs > To: evolutionary-psychol...@yahoogroups.com, zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, > seeking-the-tr...@yahoogroups.com, futurolog...@yahoogroups.com, > spacetimeandconsciousn...@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 13 September, 2011, 9:23 AM > > > Jacob, > > NDE (near death experience) has a reasonable scientific explanation. > Different parts of the body shut down at different rates during death. As > death progresses and the brain loses energy consciousness fades and retreats > into the center of the brain. NDEs are simply the experience of consciousness > at its primal center unencumbered by most of what ordinarily occupies it > during this process. Various mediation exercises can produce similar results > as consciousness turns away from the outside inward. > > NDEs are life experiences not death experiences. There are and can be no true > experiences of death in its complete form because consciousness and > everything else completely stops at that point. > > OBEs (out of body experiences) also have a simple scientific explanation. One > first needs to understand that the normal IN body experience is, like every > other experience, a cognitive construct in the mind's internal model of > reality which it seems to project upon a 3D world which is also a mental > construct. Once we understand that the feeling of consciousness being located > within our body is an arbitrary but useful mental construct it is easy to > understand that the mind could equally well produce a feeling of > consciousness being located outside our body if it wants to. > > My OBE, like many do, occurred as the car I was in skidded towards the edge > of a cliff on a dirt back road in the mountains of Japan and I was expecting > to go over the edge. I very clearly experienced my consciousness being above > the car looking down watching as I wrested the steering wheel away from the > driver and stomped the brake to the floor stopping with the front of the car > actually over the cliff edge. Apparently when immanent danger to the body is > experienced the mind may try to 'protect' the self by generating an OBE and > removing the location of consciousness from the endangered body. > > There is nothing supernatural or any evidence for miracles or life after > death or any other religious dogma in either NDEs or OBEs. > > Edgar > > > > On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Jacob Mack wrote: > >> >> Of course there is the NDE and OBE data too >> >> Don Zimmerman <dwz...@telus.net> wrote: >> >> >--- In evolutionary-psychol...@yahoogroups.com, "clarence_sonny_williams" >> ><clarencew@...> wrote: >> > >> >> While I agree that supernatural beliefs would seem to impair the >> >> development of rational cognitive processes, a possible kink in this >> >> perception is good research indicating that humans are born "intuitive >> >> theists." Our brain is "hardwired" to attribute seemingly unnatural >> >> observations to supernatural agents. See Deborah Kelemen, "Are >> >> Children Intuitive Theists?" >> >> http://www.scipie.net/docs/2007/Kelemen_PS_2004.pdf >> >> <http://www.scipie.net/docs/2007/Kelemen_PS_2004.pdf> >> >> >> >> When exploring the derivation (possibly "evolution of") religious >> >> behavior, the more puzzling question in light of Kelemen's research is >> >> why and how a human overcomes this instinctive attribution of agency to >> >> an unseen "god." >> > >> >DWZ: >> >One can argue that human beings have been "intuitive theists" for as long >> >as they have attributed spirits to the winds and waters or gods and demons >> >to the trees and stones in the forests, and all kinds of other speculative >> >beliefs about happenings in nature. One by one, however, those early >> >attempts to make sense out of the surroundings have dropped by the wayside >> >as more and more has been learned scientifically about causal and >> >evolutionary processes in nature. >> > >> >Humans have always attempted to preserve something of their early >> >superstitions by elaborating religious and theological abstractions to >> >replace more simplistic ideas. But I have great difficulty in imagining >> >that these latter "theistic" abstractions in philosophy and theology are in >> >any sense hard-wired. Cognitive processes are very flexible, plastic! >> > >> >Best regards, >> > >> >Donald W. Zimmerman >> >Vancouver, BC, Canada >> >dwz...@telus.net >> >http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899 >> > >> > > >
