Well, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. I have become rather "quick" in noticing when I first begin to have a thought, but my practice has always been to return to the present. I will see what my teacher has to say on this issue of reflective awareness. Not that I blindly follow whatever my teacher advises, he would not allow me to do that anyway. But, I deeply respect his advice in the Way. I would wager a guess that he will say to continue "just coming back," but I do not know for certain until I ask. Rewrisk, I appreciate the interactions I have had with you thus far on this forum, I feel it is very enriching to learn of various techniques. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.
--- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@...> wrote: > > Interesting. > I found that if I could catch the thought as it arose I then knew the impulse > that drove it and this was the begining of the reflective awareness. > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote: > > > > Rewrisk, a coincidence indeed, I as well had asthma throughout my childhood > > and teens. Luckily, that has subsided over the years (no thanks to many > > hair-brained years of cigarettes, which I have only recently quit). But, > > anyway, my technique. I do place emphasis on just focusing on my > > breathing, yet I am still obviously very aware of the thoughts, ideas, > > plans, preferences, etc that all come and go as i meditate. Sometimes > > while I sit Zazen my mind and body are very calm, at other times I am > > anxious and have a very busy mind. Regardless of what mood or state I find > > my mind and body, I continue to sit until the predetermined time has been > > reached and it is time to get up. So, while I sit, my aim is to just look > > at the wall and focus on breath. Then I catch myself in thought, my > > practice is to just return to the present. Now, precisely this is what I > > am working on currently: as I catch myself in thought, I try not to think > > the words "just come back," rather, I am trying to become more proficient > > in just "doing" the "mental action" of "just coming back" without thinking > > it in words. I have been noticing that over the last couple of weeks with > > some determination I am becoming better at this. I also appreciate and > > value the this "mirrored reflection" ability of awareness, it is very > > subtle. To be able to just let the thoughts come and go on their own > > accord without pushing them away forcibly or making effort to keep them, > > this is a practice that i feel requires a substantial amount of training. > > But, like I said earlier, what I am mainly working on right now is trying > > not to think phrases like "just come back," instead to simply... come back. > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > > > Matt. > > > I was asthmatic as a child and as a young man found attempting to > > > concentrate on my breathing had rather unpleasant consequences. > > > I tried many meditative techniques and finally found that simply watching > > > what occured in my mind was most effective. I had heard of reflective > > > meditation and while the suggested technique didn't do it for me the idea > > > of reflection of holding a mirror to my mind, a mirror in which to watch > > > what occurred in it turned out to be very effective and I progressed > > > quite quickly once I learnt to. As I progressed I found myself tempted to > > > interfere with what I saw occuring, this slowed my progress untill I > > > began to realise I was not seeing everything and later as I progressed > > > further the temptation to interfere resulted in unpleasant effects so > > > that I quickly ceased to fall to such temptation. Eventually I found I > > > was able to induce those states that other meditative techniques > > > suggested, through reflective awareness. > > > > > > So apart from indulging myself in the above self expression you can see > > > how one technique can lead to another. You say you know from practising > > > meditation on your breath that through it you can also enter a state of > > > mental stillness. So no effort goes without result there is only what you > > > are yet to discover. To me it sounds forced and the force of habit but > > > you must work atleast to some degree with your own nature I do not mean > > > to insult. To myself my technique sounds vain and self indulgent and it > > > is. But has worked for me quite well. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewrisk, thank you for your reply. Your considerate words are > > > > encouraging and wise. As far as my technique, I am fortunate enough to > > > > live fairly close by to a Zen meditation center of the Soto lineage. > > > > So, at home and at the center in my Zazen, the only object of my > > > > meditation is the breath. I have become quite familiar with several > > > > walls and love them dearly. :) Well, it is actually time to sit for > > > > the night, so again, thank you, and have a pleasant evening/day. > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > I misread your; 'the "great matter of birth and death."' > > > > > I am heartened that you do not believe in reincarnation or life after > > > > > death. > > > > > I apologise to you, clearly I mistook my audience. > > > > > > > > > > You say 'I should hope I don't ever feel that I have reached a > > > > > "place" in my understanding'. And I am minded that I have found many > > > > > a "place" in my understanding but none I could rest on my laurels in. > > > > > I took rest as I had to and while I may have tried to superimpose > > > > > meaning on that I found meaning despite doing so. > > > > > > > > > > If you should wish to discuss meditative technique? > > > > > I myself have found a reflective awareness the most usefull. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > With all respect to you, rewisk, you have made a lot of assumptions > > > > > > about me without knowing me. I do not believe in reincarnation, or > > > > > > life after death. These are things I cannot know, because I have > > > > > > not died. And as far as how long it "should" take for a > > > > > > practitioner to "attain" anything, who is to say? I should hope I > > > > > > don't ever feel that I have reached a "place" in my understanding, > > > > > > I wish to just experience my life in the present moment with the > > > > > > growing of my understanding of Emptiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to have to tell you this Matt but you will not survive your > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > Some people seem to think that life could only be fair if we are > > > > > > > reincarnated but they fail to recognise that if life was fair you > > > > > > > would have to pay for your advantages and not just your sins. If > > > > > > > life is fair then it can't be a gift. > > > > > > > Six years huh? > > > > > > > It only took me three and less than a year after I got serious > > > > > > > about it. I do not say this to boast only I wonder about you > > > > > > > meditative technique? I suppose if I include the time of my > > > > > > > initial curiosity maybe four or so. > > > > > > > I felt great need though, likely this is the difference. > > > > > > > Still I would expect any person who regularly practised an > > > > > > > effective form of meditation to atleast have attained a sense of > > > > > > > thier personal illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myself, I do not feel that it is a matter of salvation. The > > > > > > > > matter, is the "great matter of birth and death." One of my > > > > > > > > favorite authors, Stephen Batchelor, in his book -Alone with > > > > > > > > others- says that the "aim" is for "the optimum mode of being." > > > > > > > > To me what this says is, that the aim of life would be living > > > > > > > > in awareness, as you grow and age through the years, hopefully > > > > > > > > you will become wiser. I recently had Dokusan with one of my > > > > > > > > teachers, and she said that Zen practice and enlightenment is > > > > > > > > kind of like in those old cartoons, when someone is about to > > > > > > > > receive a gift and they are told NOT to look. In the cartoons, > > > > > > > > we always see them peeking with one eye at the gift before it > > > > > > > > is given to them. So, I have been practicing since 2006, I > > > > > > > > have never had an "awakening experience," and that is fine with > > > > > > > > me. Zazen has taught me many things, and I know not to "peek," > > > > > > > > or in other words, to conceptualize what I think enlightenment > > > > > > > > is and then strive for it. Rather, I just live my daily life, > > > > > > > > always, constantly coming back to direct experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
