I must second this. I have saved an email from you Mike where in you ask some tormenter if they do not find the world a bit cleaner after a sesshin (part of the endless words on polishing vs. ceasing). I have not replied because this is the crux; why do we practice when everything is complete as it is. Too funny but still.
I have the sort of live where I generally enjoy the retreat quite a lot, nothing as hard for me as semi-sincere and semi-aware parenting (alas that one must see one's flaws as a parent, the gap between preference and reality, in order to be a decent parent), but they definitely make things easier; if not by insight at least by spaciousness. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Sep 12, 2012, at 15:49, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Merle, > > Have you never been on a retreat? It's a great way to be free of the day to > day distractions which prevent us from going really deep within ourselves. > It's certainly not an escape from the world and can be one of the most > difficult and challenging times we can experience. But the insights we can > get from it, which might not be possible with our busy schedules, help us to > deal with the stuff everyday life throws at us. Don't knock it til you try > it! : ) > > Mike > > From: Merle Lester <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 23:07 > Subject: [Zen] the real world and zen power > > > ..if you sit around meditating all day...just as some folk in other > religions pray/ chant all day then "nothing " is happening to upset the apple > cart so to speak.... going out in the real world...facing it...that's when > the "trouble " starts...that's when you need the "tools of survival" to get > through the day.. > .reality dawns > and reality can be a" bag of allsorts" as you all well know > that's when you need the" zen power" to get you through the day! > merle > > > JM, > > >Serious practitioners were asked to sit at least one hour without moving. > >Mark Troxell, the one recently was transmitted with Buddha Heart Imprint was > >told to meditate FOUR hours a day, I was told. Yak.. > > Just out of interest, here's a schedule for a Vipassana retreat. > Compulsory/not compulsory just means that you can meditate in your own room > or in the main hall. You can see that there is a minimum of 10 hours a day > meditation over 10 days - ALL conducted in Noble silence with no reading or > writing material, music, books or cell phones etc. > > 4:00 – 04:30 Get Up & Take a Shower > 04:30 – 06:30 Meditation in the Main Hall (not compulsory) > 06:30 – 08:00 Breakfast & Rest > 08:00 – 10:00 Group Meditation in Hall (compulsory) > 10:00 – 11:00 Meditation in Hall (usually compulsory) > 11:00 – 13:00 Lunch & Rest > 13:00 – 14:30 Meditation in Hall (not compulsory) > 14:30 – 17:00 Meditation in Hall (compulsory) > 17:00 – 18:00 Tea-time > 18:00 – 19:00 Meditation in Hall (compulsory) > 19:00 – 20:20 Goenka Discourse Video > 20:30 – 21:00 Meditation in Hall (compulsory) > 21:00 – 22:00 Shower & Rest > 22:00 Lights Out > > A pretty intense schedule, but a great opportunity be free of the usual daily > distractions in order to go deep into the mind. > > Mike > > > > From: 覺妙精明 （JMJM） <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 7:15 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: suffering > > > Let me add to this... Surpass all comfort zone, all the knowledge, all the > basis, in short everything, is the key to Chan. > > Our minimum requirement is half lotus. Most of the serious practitioners do > full lotus. I do, because full lotus on the floor, opens up all the > meridians near the hip and the legs, so that our body can be in tip top shape. > > Serious practitioners were asked to sit at least one hour without moving. > Mark Troxell, the one recently was transmitted with Buddha Heart Imprint > was told to meditate FOUR hours a day, I was told. Yak.. > > jm > > > On 9/11/2012 7:45 PM, mike brown wrote: >> >> Bill!, >> >> There are many different reasons why practioners from different traditions >> sit on their cushions. In Vipassana, we stay with the discomfort to see into >> how and the body affects the mind. If we constantly rearrange our sitting >> position when we experience discomfort, we miss the opportunity to see how >> dukkha (dissatisfaction) operates. That's one of the great things about >> mindfulness - we can go deeply into phenomena to see the 3 Characteristics >> (impermanence, dukkha, no-self) in operation. Sitting thru discomfort >> (dis-ease) is a great tool. >> >> Mike >> >> From: Bill! <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 2:37 >> Subject: [Zen] Re: suffering >> >> >> JMJM, et al... >> >> My initial teachers encouraged me to switch legs, rock back and forth, stand >> up and walk around and even use different postures, (full-lotus, half-lotus, >> cross-legged, kneeling and even just sitting on a chair - as long as >> whatever posture I used allowed me to breathe freely and deeply. That >> requires at least an erect back to allow for 'belly breathing' (breathing by >> using the diaphragm instead of the chest or shoulders). Of course if we were >> sitting with a group we were encouraged not to change legs or do anything >> overt which might bother others. Our sitting sessions were usually 20-40 >> mins, then a 5-min break, and then another session. We would sit 3 sessions >> like that. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], 覺妙精明 （JMJM） <chan.jmjm@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > If I may add to this... >> > >> > My teacher asks us "avoid switching legs during sitting..." In other >> > words, it is for training our mind to be detached from our physical >> > body. Because, the physical body is our first hindrance to >> > enlightenment. Then there is the hindrance of our mind and hindrance of >> > our spirit to surpass next... Not hard. Right? :-) >> > >> > >> > On 9/11/2012 4:33 PM, mike brown wrote: >> > > ED, >> > > >> > > I can't talk about zazen, but in Vipassana, pain is something we're >> > > taught to welcome (within reason) because it's a good tool to teach us >> > > insight into impermanence, suffering and an impersonal self. I can >> > > honestly say that sitting without moving for an hour, or more, >> > > sometimes creates the most intense pain I have ever suffered in my >> > > life! The only time I've found that pain is completely alleviated is >> > > when I've entered into the jhanas. This is no exaggeration. I've gone >> > > from the most intense white-hot pain to the most ecstatic bliss in an >> > > instant. Of course, and here's the lesson, this state passes and the >> > > pain comes back once more. A valuable lesson in the arising and >> > > passing of phenomena that is way beyond just an intellectual >> > > understanding. >> > > >> > > Mike >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > > *From:* ED <seacrofter001@...> >> > > *To:* [email protected] >> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 15:16 >> > > *Subject:* [Zen] Re: suffering >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Bill! and Mike, >> > > >> > > Is it not the case that zazen or vipasana can also help alleviate pain? >> > > >> > > --ED >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, >> > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Merle, >> > > > >> > > > I am also 66! >> > > > >> > > > I'm about to give you some of my definitions of terms and they're >> > > pretty 'tough-love' definitions so be warned... >> > > > >> > > > Pain is NOT suffering. Pain is pain. Suffering is feeling sorry for >> > > yourself (your self) because perhaps you're in pain and that does not >> > > meet up with your expectations and disappoints you. >> > > > >> > > > You do not have to suffer. >> > > > >> > > > The best example I know of this is a 3-legged dog. I'm sure you've >> > > seen many of them. They aren't suffering because (I presume) they don't >> > > have a strong 'mental model' of 'self'. They don't feel sorry for >> > > themselves. They don't compare themselves to other dogs. They just make >> > > do with what they've got. I've seen dogs with only 2 legs and they don't >> > > act any differently than those with 4. You could be a little >> > > condescending and say 'they don't know any better' - when actually you >> > > should be just saying 'they don't know' - and good for them. >> > > > >> > > > Contrast that with a human who has lost a leg. Many such humans will >> > > suffer. They'll wonder 'why me'? 'What did I do to deserve this?' And be >> > > envious of full-bodied humans who can do more and have more than they. >> > > Why? Because they DO have a strong 'mental model' of 'self' and have >> > > expectations of what life SHOULD be like, and do compare themselves with >> > > others. Their life is not like others (the majority) and this >> > > disappoints them so they suffer. >> > > > >> > > > Zazen can help... >> > > > >> > > > ...Bill! >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > >
