Chris, The 'heart' of Christianity is FAITH, which is another word for 'belief'.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> wrote: > > Well, as my Episcopal t-shirt says below, belief is not at the heart of > Christianity, rather the action of worshipping in community is. There is a > tremendous variety of beliefs in my church at least. it is fun to have a > variety of beliefs but it's peripheral. I find it easier to speak to folks > with less out there beliefs at coffee hour, but fulfilling to speak with > anyone when I have an open heart or ears. > > Metaphor is sort of a timid word, howevere. But there is I am sure some > group of metaphor believers around. (#10 I believe is not strictly true - > at least in.Charlotte NC there was a church of speaking in tongues, and I > think snake handling tends to go along with that 'charismatic' sect. > > I think most serious people of any religion do not read the Bible or > anything else looking for scientific truths, but for external input that > clarifies our ability to accept Creation as it is now and respond > appropriately. > > Top Ten Reasons to be an Episcopalian: > > (from the comedian Robin Williams, who is an Episcopalian, on a recent HBO > special) > 10. No snake handling. > 9. You can believe in dinosaurs. > 8. Male and female God created them; male and female we ordain them. > 7. You don't have to check your brains at the door. > 6. Pew aerobics. > 5. Church year is color-coded. > 4. Free wine on Sunday. > 3. All of the pageantry - none of the guilt. > 2. You don't have to know how to swim to get baptized. > "And the Number One reason to be an Episcopalian:" > 1. No matter what you believe, there's bound to be at least one other > Episcopalian who agrees with you. > Copyright © 2002 St. Augustine by-the-Sea > On Dec 14, 2012 2:26 PM, "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > > Bill!, > > > > > It would be like being a Christian but not believing Jesus was the Son > > of God. > > > > You raise a point that's long been *very* interesting to me. > > > > I wonder about the case of someone who takes the whole Christian/Jewish > > story as metaphor. Can such a person be a good Christian? Or, does > > *everyone* take the Christian story as metaphor? > > > > I suppose that such a person will -- or can -- be good, in all ways. And > > I suspect that such a person believes that the real story, the true picture > > of reality in its depth and heights, is not and cannot be encapsulated in > > any story, person, historical event, or even metaphor, nor via any > > conceivable thread of reasoning, nor science or philosophy. This leaves > > the picture open to appreciation as a "mystery", which is a pretty good > > state of affairs, I think. > > > > The metaphor 'just' gives a structure by which to approach the reality, > > because there's no other way to preserve or make available the lived > > tradition, other than to encapsulate it, *SOMEHOW*, for transmission to > > each generation. That's a big "just"! In other words, the metaphor serves > > as a vehicle for transmission of certain clues and cues for the > > practitioner, which themselves serve as a Yoga or a ladder for the > > practitioner. > > > > I like to think that the truest Christians -- the Christians most intimate > > with Christian truths -- are the ones who accept the tradition as metaphor. > > > > But I believe this is heresy in my (previous) Church! > > > > Yet, it may simply be "Secret". For example: the tradition is taught as > > literal truth, but practitioners must simply come to their own > > understanding of it, as metaphor, a metaphor for them which impinges on the > > reality of life and opens windows upon Human nature and relationships, and > > upon all of Nature. No one tells you that you must do this. And this is, > > therefore, the only way that such implausible stories can actually be > > useful to a person, spiritually and intellectually: one builds one's life > > and behavior in the light of the metaphor, and in appreciation of the > > metaphor. The tradition gracefully allows one to do this. It only forces > > down one's throat the implausible literal stories, and allows you to do the > > real work of understanding and incorporation after you find that you must > > vomit them up. It becomes *entirely* personal! What better religion than > > that, especially if you share it with others. While keeping the secret of > > the metaphoric nature of the teachings, > > that is; wink-wink. > > > > Well, simple notions, still in a puppy-stage, here, and left that way for > > decades, but re-visited occasionally. > > > > You may also gather a hint of the state and extent of pollution of my > > "Christianity" by my Zen practice, and experience. > > > > I've heard other folks express that they had first to become a good Zen > > Buddhist practitioner before they could ever have become a good Christian. > > > > Any, err-r, thoughts? ;-) > > > > --Joe > > > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > I'm mostly interested in how someone puts what they call 'zen' into > > practice than how they acquired it. Of course in this medium the only > > evidence we see is written communication - a very limited medium for > > demonstrating Buddha Nature. > > > > > > But I do agree with you that for me zazen (zen meditation) is a > > cornerstone of all zen teachings. I can't conceive of anyone practicing > > zen and excluding zazen - but I guess it's possible. It would be like > > being a Christian but not believing Jesus was the Son of God. You could > > call yourself a Christian and could in fact be a very good and upright > > person, but I don't think the majority of your fellow-parishioners would > > accept you as one of them. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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