Mike, Okay, maybe 'mumbo-jumbo' is not the right word. Both of these concepts to mean something.
What bothers me about things like this is the enumeration. I think a lot of people take them too literally. Like believe there are really 5 specific precepts, no more no less. The same with the Eightfold Path. Or the 10 Commandments. These types of things are for people who can't or don't want to take responsibility for their own lives. They feel safer depending on someone else's list of Do's and Don't. Whenever I think of these I always imagine someone carrying around a little plastic card in their shirt pocket with the 5 Precepts, and every time they need to make a decision about something they have to pull the card out and check themselves against The List. This is the stuff of religion. Religions create dogma and tell people they have to memorize and follow it so they can...whatever - go to heaven, become enlightened, be re-born into a better life, etc... It's all crap to me. Zen doesn't just give people lists of things they should or should not do, or should or should not think about. Zen leads you to experience Buddha Nature and then you don't have to worry about any lists like these anymore. They're all somebody else's lists anyway. Maybe after realizing Buddha Nature you'll make your own list, but probably you won't need a list at all. It's like Jesus said when asked about all the traditional Jewish laws. He basically just said 'you don't need to know all those laws, you just need to love one another'. You don't need any lists, just compassion. And in fact if you don't have compassion even following the lists aren't going to help you anyway. That's my take on it anyway... ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "mike" <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > I'm still confused as to why you would consider these terms mumbo jumbo. For > example, 'The 5 Precepts' pin-point the problems we face when we sit own to > meditate. Take any one of the precepts (not to harm any living thing; steal; > sexual misconduct; lie; intoxication). They're not commands like in > Christianity, but they help facilitate meditation because a vow keeps us > mindful of not breaking them. It's not the obviousness of breaking them that > helps meditation, but the vow not to that helps. > > The Noble Eightfold Path is another useful tool for those of us on the path. > They can be seen as an explanation of the path towards cessation of > suffering, as a guideline, and as a description of the behaviour of a Buddha. > It's broken down to morality, meditation and wisdom and how to 'achieve' > them. It can be seen that morality leads to successful meditation and > meditation leads to wisdom (insight into impermanence, no-self and the > unsatisfactoriness of believing in both). Criticising them as mumbo jumbo to > me seems no different than to criciicise any classification as the same. They > might not be ultimate truth, but they're invaluable as a guide and > explanation of the Dharma. > > Mike > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > You're right; or at least what I meant by "mumbo-jumbo" is indeed Buddhist > > dogma. Things like 'The Five Precepts' and 'The Noble Eightfold Path'. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > Bill!,<br/><br/>I'm not sure why you always flog this horse about > > > Buddhism being "Mumbo jumbo". The way of Vipassana is as clear and > > > concise as any manual on making a pizza. Take a look at the Dhammapada - > > > where's the mumbo jumbo in that? It's instructions and teachings are > > > perfectly clear (putting them into practice is another thing). I think > > > you confuse the rituals and prayers to Buddha by later followers with the > > > actual teachings of Buddha. I will say, I don't like the word 'Buddhism' > > > as it implies a series of beliefs. I practice Buddha Dharma, or simply > > > the Dharma, is much more accurate to my mind and is all that Vipassana > > > is.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
