Bill!,
Bill! concluded:
"The concept of cause-and-effect an example of such human-created content and
is illusory."
This is what Mike meant in calling you an Old Fox!
--Joe (I follow your explication, though; tnx.)
> "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Since this is such an important concept, to me anyway, I've embedded my
> responses in your post below:
>
> [Mike] Bill!, You old fox! I know where you're coming from, but don't jump
> too far ahead of yourself by being too quick to judge the relative from the
> standpoint of the absolute. The Dharma (as in the Law of nature) can be
> basically stripped down to cause and effect
>
> [Bill!] All concepts including Dharma, Law of Nature and Cause-and-Effect
> are products of our human intellect and are illusory.
>
> [Mike] Tell me one thing that isn't caused by a previous condition.
>
> [Bill!] Nothing is caused by a previous condition because there has been no
> other nor previous condition. The dualisitic terms 'other' and 'previous'
> are describing illusory qualities.
>
> [Mike] Remember that Buddha was pointing out that the (inner) world we
> create for ourselves is based on our thoughts and actions - which come from
> how we perceive phenomena.
>
> [Bill!] Agreed...
>
> Only when we manifest Buddha Nature does our equanimity extinguish cause and
> effect and hence karma.
>
> [Bill!] Agreed...
>
> But cause and effect in the world of the conditioned is very much a Law that
> explains our happiness or misery (and what to do about them).
>
> [Bill!] Agreed...as you say 'in the world of the conditioned' which I
> maintain is 'the world of forms' or 'the world of illusion'.
>
> We each create this world with our intellect. We create the forms with our
> human intellect, and that's no big deal as long as we don't forget that the
> forms are empty. It's when we create content for the forms (thoughts,
> judgement, classifications, associations, etc...) and we become attached to
> this illusory content we ourselves have created that we lose grounding in
> Buddha Nature.
>
> The concept of cause-and-effect an example of such human-created content and
> is illusory.
------------------------------------
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