Edgar, Here again is the key to the falsity of your unfounded and non-experiential, thought-built phantasms, your claims, claims that our experience in awakening and afterwards do NOT support:
Edgar writes exactly errantly: "> It is true that in meditation consciousness temporarily can turn attention away from the forms. That is what you do in Zazen. But that is merely a state of mind that helps one recognize the Buddha Nature beyond the forms. The world of forms is always there ready to return as soon as you get up from sitting.... " In zazen, one carries out one's formal practice of a method. We won't say what goes on there. But at awakening, one is no longer meditating. It's in AWAKENING that all falls away, and nature and our nature are clear. We can say that awakening and our realization of reality do not depend, now, on our sitting in meditation, but that meditation has allowed mind-currents and habits to cease suddenly, to die of their own accord, by our starving them. Once the heads and tails of these wigglers are gone, the scene is clear and bright. Nature shines, and we realize our intimacy. There is not one thing. At awakening and after awakening, one walks around and there remains not a thing, and not a thought. This intimacy with our true self is not scared away once we are up and around. Some practitioners note that they did not awaken while seated. One nice report is here; it's by a young Ch'an master, now aged 35 years. He awakened in the care of a good teacher, a teacher who in fact was also my teacher, Sheng Yen. Here is his disciple and Dharma heir, Guo Jun. Please have a look. http://www.tricycle.com/web-exclusive/returning-home The segment from a timing of 05:50 onwards is the statement of the IMPORTANCE of zazen and other practices (as a surfing-board), but the PRIMACY of awakening. We can discuss it, as you like. Best, and best All, --Joe > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > You believe that illusion, by your definition the world of forms that follows > logical rules, arises or exists only in the mind. > > This is incorrect because it assumes a dualism of mind versus an external > world. This dualism DOES NOT EXIST. > > Thus the world of forms CANNOT be said to exist only in the mind since the > mind itself is PART of that world of forms, just another construct in the > world of forms. > > The true picture is that the world of forms exists in the one UNITY > antecedent to the dualism of mind and not mind. Thus it MUST BE an intrinsic > part of reality. > > The world of forms are ripples in the formless sea of Buddha Nature, thus > they are PART of Buddha Nature, they manifest Buddha Nature. > > Zen is seeing the Buddha Nature IN the world of forms. It is not somehow > making the world of forms disappear as you erroneously imagine. > > It is true that in meditation consciousness temporarily can turn attention > away from the forms. That is what you do in Zazen. But that is merely a state > of mind that helps one recognize the Buddha Nature beyond the forms. The > world of forms is always there ready to return as soon as you get up from > sitting.... > > The trick is to bring that realization into daily life IN the world of forms > where one continues to realize the Buddha Nature one realized in zazen IN the > forms of the world in daily life.... > > That is true Zen mind 24/7. This is the teaching of all the great > teachers...... ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
