irrelevant..whether you believe in "g" or not you don't know because it is not a fact to figure out and never will be...merle Bill,
Get your Gods straight. It was Helios or Apollo, depending on the culture, who drove the chariot of the sun across the sky, not Mercury... Jeez, no wonder you can't understand Zen! :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 6:56 AM, Bill! wrote: >Merle, > >Saying "some of us are hard wired to believe in god" might be true, but I >think it would be better stated that 'we all as humans are wired >insufficiently to understand everything we perceive' (with the possible >exception of Edgar). IMO what we tend to do is make up explanations for >things we can't understand. > >A good example is 'god'. He/She is a handy explanation for all things >mysterious and explainable. These explanations usually take on the forms we >know, like the early Greeks trying to explain the rising, transverse of the >sky and setting of the sun every day by creating the explanation of a god >named Mercury who drove his golden chariot across the sky. We want to >'understand' why there seems to be 'good' and 'bad', and very ardently want to >learn how we can avoid 'bad' things, how we can control our lives. Believe in >a god is a good way to approach this and a very comforting belief. > >Religions invent gods to explain these things. > >Science uses logic and makes promises that these things now not understood CAN >be understood, and will be some day. > >Zen accepts that there are things that are just unknowable, things we as >humans just cannot understand. > >I say we cannot understand everything because our understanding is limited to >the logic and rationality our intellect provides us. I believe we must accept >this and not REJECT our intellect but realize it has its limits and use if >accordingly. > >...Bill! > >--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >> >> >> >>  ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard >> wired to believe in god.. >> i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. >> .... merle >> >>  >> Merle, >> >> Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you >> pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence >> to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and >> hear reality. Take away the "I" and what more do you need? >> >> Mike >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>; >> To: uerusuboyo@... <uerusuboyo@...>; >> Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks >> Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM >> >> >> >> >>  mike..god??????? why doubts?..merle >> Merle, >> >> i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the >> other? >> >> being an example :yes... >> and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best >> >> >> Asked and answered!! >> >> Mike >> >> Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would >> imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly >> what spurs me >> to practice so that when my time comes I will >> handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a >> belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>; >> To: uerusuboyo@... <uerusuboyo@...>; >> Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks >> Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM >> >> >> >> >>  hi mike.. >> >> great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so >> patient kind and caring and enthusiastic.. >>  i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. >> i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever "killed" >> any one...  or is that a stupid question? >> >> yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... >> >> you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian >> church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by >> correspondence  (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible >> study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ.. >>  i will say that christ to would ask you to experience  for yourself... >> in many respects all religions are very similar..they get "f 'over by those >> in the power seat and people get manipulated... >> if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. >> >> there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched >> behaviour of humans... >> >> so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the >> suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and >> greedy with reptilian brains... >> how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 >> golden rules.. >> and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to >> the 10 golden rules... >> >> you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of >> repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to "breathe the >> breath..."..easier said than done... >> >> what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. >> >> those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... >> >> in my time i have  been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe >> to be the truth... >> >> however i'm not planning to be "walk over hot coals" anytime soon so to >> speak... >> >> i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the >> other? >> >>  being an example :yes... >>  and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best >> >>  thank you for the time you have taken out to write your thoughts to me... >>  yes you are a breath of fresh air in the forum >>  and i appreciate your posts always! >> >>  take care >>  merle >> Hi! >> >> Exactly, it is simple! (yet so difficult to put into practice). We have to >> workout our own liberation from suffering before we can truly help anyone >> else. I'm sure you must have heard of the Serenity Prayer: >> >> God grant me the serenity >> to accept the things I cannot change; >> courage to change the things I can; >> and wisdom to know the difference. >> >> By changing how we perceive external events we change how we suffer. Then >> all our thoughts and actions come from Compassion (not pity!). We change how >> we deal with people around us and hopefully >> serve as an >> inspiration for them to also change. You've heard of the Power of One? But >> first *we* have to accept the responsibility of our own actions and not >> delegate the responsibility to other people or a god. I encourage you to >> read as much as you can on 'cause and effect' (karma is just the Pali word >> for >> this). It's not 'spooky' stuff - it's logical and rational and can be >> observed quite plainly in our own life. >> >> I love having you on the forum! It's like I can hear the gears of your mind >> working things out. I think you have a latent belief in Christianity which >> sometimes clashes with Buddhist thinking. It shouldn't. Vipassana is just a >> system of meditation focused on the breath which allows you to see reality >> in operation. There's no belief in anything required. Buddha taught us not >> to accept anything he said without experiencing it for yourself. After all, >> a breath is just a breath. There's no such thing as a male or female breath. >> Or a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or atheist breath. Vipassana (Buddhism) is >> not a religion at all, but just a way to see reality as it really is. Happy >> breathing! >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>; >> To: mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>; >> Subject: Karma..many thanks >> Sent: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:42:26 PM >> >> >> >> >>  dear mike.. >> >> thank you for directing this site to me... i have absorbed this as you say >> like a sponge....and yes enjoyed... >> >> however i do have questions... >> >> it is too simplistic  for me.. >> >> >> i understand do good be good, think good.. >> >>  i have been following these teachings all my life and my understand comes >> from christianity >> >> however life is not as simple as this... >> >> i still need more explanation to suffering... e.g...wars create suffering >> for innocent people... >> >> how can a person look at his or her life and say my suffering is caused cos >> i didn't follow the "10 golden rules"? >> >>  i believe in evolution..and i believe we are evolving in our >> understanding of consciousness.. >> >> nothing is set in stone... >> >> there are only stepping stones.. >> >> buddhism too is a stepping stone.. >> >> we need to look even deeper and longer into all ..that includes all the >> teachings... >> >>  when we awaken there is only one thing remaining that is we actually do >> not know anything at all >> >> if we do not see this we become ourselves statues of stone >> >>  i trust you are enjoying a good day...freezing here and very grey at >> 9:45am.. >> >> merle >> >> >> Merle, >> >> You might enjoy this video. Try listening to it uncritically and let it wash >> over you. >> >> Mike >> >> >> Check out this video on YouTube: >> >> http://youtu.be/Uy8MOMmk0KM >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> > >
