So you are claiming that states of the brain and non thought are mutually exclusive?
Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jul 5, 2013 6:44 PM, "Bill!" <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: > Chris, > > "Non-thought" is no intellectual activity - no creating pluralism which is > the foundation of delusion and attachment. Later you can reincorporate > thought without attachment by realizing it as delusive. > > It doesn't mean all your bodily functions shut down. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> wrote: > > > > Non-thought is not no mental activity, sitting errect fully present in a > > moment takes more lively brains/more energetic bodies than sleep. > > > > Or are you suggesting that skimming thru life without really inhabiting > > each moment is the key? > > > > Or just falling prey to that Zen temptation of word play, since I wrote > of > > people "moved" by beauty? > > > > Thanks, > > --Chris > > 301-270-6524 > > On Jul 5, 2013 10:53 AM, <pandabananasock@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > Mind moves mind. > > > > > > Yours truely, > > > Peebles > > > > > > You: "Over and over, I have > > > heard some music without really paying attention, and tuen one time > have > > > really listened to it, and been deeply moved." > > > ------------------------------ > > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 12:31 PM EDT Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > > > > > >Are you kidding? Your intellect is where your sense of beauty come > from? > > > >That could not be further away from my experience. Over and over, I > have > > > >heard some music without really paying attention, and tuen one time > have > > > >really listened to it, and been deeply moved. Really also I find > > > >listening/seeing/tasting/touching/smelling/introspecting in general > > > rewards > > > >attentive attending ;) with a suuden pleasurable deepening > appreciation > > > for > > > >how things are, for the specific thing at hand a routine occurance. > > > > > > > >For beauty, there is a saying, when nothing is special, then > everything > > > >can be special. But our brain will be responding to beauty in any > case. > > > >Spontaneously. Not because of intellectual something, but our full > > > >response to life clearly seen. > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >--Chris > > > >301-270-6524 > > > > On Jul 5, 2013 2:35 AM, "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Merle, > > > >> > > > >> My intellect judged them to be beautiful. That judgement was > probably > > > >> something I learned to mimic from hearing other people describe > things > > > as > > > >> beautiful. > > > >> > > > >> ...Bill! > > > >> > > > >> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Â > > > >> > Â bill..how do you know they were beautiful? clarification > > > please..merle > > > >> > > > > >> > I have indeed perceived many beautiful sunsets. > > > >> > > > > >> > But have also experienced Just THIS! > > > >> > > > > >> > ...Bill! > > > >> > > > > >> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ÂÂ > > > >> > > ÂÂ bill..is that so?...is that what you have realised or > have been > > > >> told to believe think and feel?.. have you never seen a beautiful > > > sunset > > > >> ?...merle > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ÂÂ > > > >> > > Merle, > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Math is judged to be beautiful because it is logical. Yes. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Logic is judged to be beautiful because it deceives us into > > > thinking > > > >> we understand the truth. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Truth is not beautiful or not-beautiful. Truth just is. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > All judgments come from your delusive intellect and self. If > you > > > are > > > >> looking for 'realization' [Buddha Nature?] then you'll have to let > go > > > your > > > >> attachments to such things as self, intellect, truth and beauty. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ...Bill! > > > >> > > > > > >> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > mathematics is beautiful because it is logical > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ logic is beautiful because it is so > pointing to the > > > truth > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > truth is so beautiful because it points and parts the way for > > > >> realisation to take place .. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > merle > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ > > > >> > > > Edgar, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Reality is not bound by logic. I'd buy your statement if you > said > > > >> 'math words because it accurately models our logically-based > > > perception of > > > >> reality', but I suppose that wouldn't work for you. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > ...Bill! > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Bill, > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > No, no, no. Human math works because it DOES accurately > model > > > the > > > >> actual logic of reality. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Edgar > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Chris, > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Mathematics doesn't reveal reality. Mathematics only > mirrors > > > the > > > >> human intellect. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > ...Bill! > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane > <chris@> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The thing I like about math as a source of analogies > for > > > zen > > > >> is that it > > > >> > > > > > > shows how two different things csn br exactly the same. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Linear equations over reals are lines. Lines are linear > > > >> equations. > > > >> > > > > > > Numbers, points, the constituents drop away as the > eternal > > > >> unity is seen. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks, > > > >> > > > > > > --Chris > > > >> > > > > > > 301-270-6524 > > > >> > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013 8:12 AM, <pandabananasock@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Bill!: > > > >> > > > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you > were > > > >> looking for an > > > >> > > > > > > > impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that > eventually it > > > >> leads you back > > > >> > > > > > > > to the beginning. We use mathematics as an > expression of > > > the > > > >> model, then > > > >> > > > > > > > we use the model as an expression of the math. Then > we > > > >> realize that both > > > >> > > > > > > > are models of each other and the same, and experience > > > >> encompasses all -- no > > > >> > > > > > > > need for anything else. Rivers and mountains become > > > rivers > > > >> and mountains > > > >> > > > > > > > again! > > > >> > > > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of > > > >> Cause-and-Effect and > > > >> > > > > > > > Karma > > > >> > > > > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > >> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three > > > >> > > > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF > there > > > is > > > >> > > > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so > > > much a > > > >> > > > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic > > > quality of > > > >> > > > > > > > the act itself. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, > > > >> > > > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that > is, > > > >> > > > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be > different > > > >> > > > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit > > > >> > > > > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present. > > > >> > > > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the > > > >> > > > > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something > > > >> > > > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic > > > >> > > > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that > > > "good" > > > >> > > > > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS! > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you > recently > > > have > > > >> > > > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! > Groups > > > >> > > > > > > > Links > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you > recently > > > have > > > >> read or are > > > >> > > > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read > or > > > are > > > >> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or > are > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
