Joe,
Well actually then that was not my point.
I didn't mean to imply that differing schools bring about differing effects on
awakening. Awakening is always sudden. One second you're not awake and the
next second you are.
I was just commenting on the different sects use different techniques to bring
you to that one, instantaneous experience.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
>
> No, no, don't elevate me, or my awakening. Mine was average, as all of ours
> must be. ;-)
>
> I've gone over the same ground several times, too: Multiple awakenings are
> also possible, standard, the norm, and common, and documented. ;-)
>
> First go-'round lasted 8 weeks, before the mind ever moved again. It was a
> challenging time, when I was first working in Science, and had to really
> produce. I found it easy!, but very different. And I even took a second
> job. I found it hard to say "No", when I knew I could help. It wore down,
> eventually: I was doing too much. This is good! As Bodhisattvas, we are not
> ones to jump over the wall and stay out there, but we come back into the
> "prison-yard", and feel at home as never before, while we bring happiness to
> the inmates, and guards.
>
> Bill!, I only disagree about the different schools of practice having
> different effects upon awakening.
>
> At awakening, all is forgiven! ;-)
>
> --Joe
>
> PS Thanks, welcoming me me back. First, it was the birthday; then, birding
> over the Fourth of July, et. seq., at Madeira Canyon that kept me away.
> Then, it was the receipt of my first Android device (a tablet); I "had" to
> immediately begin to write apps (or begin to learn how to do so). I've been
> *embroiled* ever since. But also reading lots of good Buddhist material, and
> some unpublished manuscripts -- or at least one -- on the Android, as an
> e-reader. It (She...) will even read *to* me. As if I were not spoiled
> already. But I'm liking this MS. Truly.
>
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > First of all welcome back!
> >
> > My experience is not the same as you describe below. Although the initial
> > awakening (satori) was immediate and complete, delusions and attachments
> > slowly crept back in and I still have them to some degree to this day. Zen
> > practice (mainly zazen) helps me to 'clean my bowls' and keeps them
> > relatively unsullied, but they are not completely spotless - yet.
> >
> > Your awakening must have been more complete than mine.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill!,
> > >
> > > No, I don't think so.
> > >
> > > Awakening is awakening.
> > >
> > > Upon arrival, it matters not how one arrived. One is simply not
> > > attached, not able to attach, and simply simplified, and one with all our
> > > original Human inheritance (full compliment of faculties).
> > >
> > > There is no residue of how one practiced previously.
> > >
> > > Granted, the practices, and the emphases of the two schools appear to
> > > differ, beforehand.
> > >
> > > But Awakening is just the same for everyone. How can we be sure?: Well,
> > > there is only one nature. When that nature is completely embodied,
> > > joined, inhabited, then, no figments from the past have any liveliness.
> > > All is dead but the present, just THIS.
> > >
> > > This is my experience, with several teachers, working the two different
> > > ways (streams) that are currently popular (Obaku Zen is rare).
> > >
> > > How long awakening lasts, after any given instance, is also not a matter
> > > of which School one practices in, but depends instead on one's overall
> > > preparation, one's overall practice, and one's state of health.
> > > Additionally, on one's state of practice immediately after awakening (one
> > > must continue, and change practice in substantive ways, following one's
> > > entering the door of Ch'an, say).
> > >
> > > In Zen practice, one is a Yogi. The better the Yogi, the more sweeping
> > > the awakening, and the longer it will continue.
> > >
> > > Awakening is awakening. It depends on the "Yogi", not on the school of
> > > practice. That is my claim. Rinzai, Soto, phooey. They are vehicles.
> > > They are not the nature. Thus, awakening is uniform.
> > >
> > > But, different Yogis will have lesser or greater awakenings, depending on
> > > state of health, general overall preparation and practice, etc.
> > >
> > > There is only one nature. Zen schools have nothing to do with that.
> > >
> > > Soto or Rinzai are immaterial to it.
> > >
> > > Hail!
> > >
> > > --Joe
>
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