[Zen] Re: the human body

[Bill!]

Larry,

Zen is not a religion and does not recognize a god.

Buddhism is a religion, IMO, so you might be confusing the two: zen and 
Buddhism.

...Bill! 

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher <lcmaher22@...> wrote:
>
> Zen is a religion looking for a God. The Buddha said 'there is no way to
> prove God and there is no way to not prove, so believe whatever works for
> you.' That's why I like Eastern thought, Hindu's cool also, just too many
> gimics and sideshows and people thinking dressing in white bathrobes helps
> get you somewhere. Lots of culture confusion. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  from what i gather you would not have zen if you did not have
> > buddhism..correct me if i am incorrect..merle
> >
> > Merle,
> >
> > Yes. IMO zen is not an exclusive subset or sect of Buddhism.
> >
> > Buddhism is a religion has does have many, many lists of principles,
> > dogma, doctrines, rituals, precepts, vows, etc... All these IMO have
> > nothing directly to do with zen, but in the case of Zen Buddhism are like
> > an add-on covering and adornments that are wrapped around zen. In the case
> > of most other Buddhist sects zen does not play any part, and is in fact
> > seen as a cult.
> >
> > This is why I draw a distinction between zen with a lower-case 'z' which
> > is a common noun and refers only the zen in general, and Zen with an
> > upper-case 'Z' which is a proper noun referring to Zen Buddhism.
> >
> > This again is IMO and is not the traditional view of Zen Buddhism...by
> > those that identify themselves as Zen Buddhists.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Â hallo bill...so tell me why oh why is the classification referred to
> > as zen buddhism?... can you have zen without buddhist principles?... merle
> > > Â
> > > Merle,
> > >
> > > As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a
> > Buddhist.
> > >
> > > I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because I
> > practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions. What
> > it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those delusions.
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are
> > you?..merle
> > > > ÂÂ
> > > > Merle,
> > > >
> > > > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who
> > doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language
> > as I do. Someone ELSE!
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not 
> > > > > you?...merle
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
> > > > > Merle,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain
> > as a judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and
> > maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain?
> > What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!".
> > > > >
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ have you been in pain 
> > > > > > bill..and thought it was
> > judgemental delusion?...merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
> > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post
> > below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha
> > Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental delusion. Just
> > as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it as 'a red
> > bird' is the delusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ bill...i see...so if
> > one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to someone bowled
> > over and in agony...merle
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
> > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as
> > through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves
> > a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least as
> > far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford
> > awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not
> > only humans but all beings as we know them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i
> > go..ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we are
> > in cyber space.... although we need the body to get the messages out
> > there...mm that has me stumped!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation
> > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ state that can be achieved once
> > one has surpassed the breath counting saga?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ
> > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > > > > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ i have belief that
> > monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can slow the whole
> > body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on
> > slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so
> > to speak?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging in
> > the body that we do not have any control over what so ever...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own
> > thing regardless)...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the gut
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ
> > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > > > > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ my zen question is
> > thus: ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ to be totally free ..the
> > human body is it a restraint?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ
> > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > > > > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ merle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ
> > > > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Å
> > > > > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
> > > > > > > > > Merle
> > > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> *Larry Maher*
>




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