Kris,
Please don't think my continual push-back on you is any form of disrespect. It
is my method of re-stating what you say in a way that is more compatible with
my thoughts. Like bouncing them off you to see what you will say. Many of the
differences may just be semantic, but that's why I'm rewording them and
bouncing them off you - to see if it is just semantic or something more
substantial.
Below you seem to imply that "shared delusion" is necessary or at least
promotes compassion. I disagree. I see the fundamental characteristic of
delusion to be a sense of duality: the self/other split. For me all other
delusions (classification, logic, reason, judgement, etc...) emanate from there
- like the miseries springing out of Pandora's Box. So for this reason I don't
see "shared delusion" playing any beneficial role at all in true compassion.
"Shared delusion" might indeed be a part of a faux-compassion. One still
rooted in dualism but developed as a sense of connectedness (we're all in this
together and I have empathy and 'feel your pain'). This type of thinking is
represented very well in the Indra's Web analogy: there are separate things
but they are all connected.
When I talk about One-ness I do not talk about separate things being connected.
I talk about just one thing - Just THIS!. Nothing else.
True compassion for me are actions which spring from that One-ness perspective,
not the 'connectedness' perspective.
But...the 'connectedness' perspective is better than a completely self-oriented
perspective which doesn't even recognize any connections. An individual which
holds this extreme perspective is called (I think) a psychopath.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey <kris@...> wrote:
>
> Indeed (in deed - meaning maybe, maybe not - but we act as if), without
> some sense of shared 'delusion' (suffering), no sense of 'compassion'
> arises. Sharing this, is a manifest/essential aspect of 'unity'.
> Compassion, points to/reflects this.
>
> KG
>
>
> On 9/14/2013 3:48 AM, Bill! wrote:
> >
> > KG,
> >
> > That's why I said "seems to be". I have know way of really knowing. In
> > fact I do think some animals share some of our intellectual
> > characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our
> > delusions.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey <kris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Key words there Bill!: "... seem to be..."
> > >
> > > Ordinary mind, such a seemly business. Always becoming (appearing as)
> > > this or that to itself, for itself, of itself. Ordinary mind
> > > distinguishes itself by caring for such distinctions, and thus becoming
> > > self-deluded by continually grasping and rejecting them.
> > >
> > > KG
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/14/2013 1:14 AM, Bill! wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I think you could also say that humans are the only beings that
> > > > actually need to make an effort to become "self-realised by following
> > > > the Dharma". All other sentient beings of which I know seem to be
> > > > already doing that.
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Merle,<br/><br/>I'm not "attempting" to say anything. I wrote it in
> > > > black and white and clearly: humans are in a unique position to
> > become
> > > > self-realised by following the Dharma (law of reality). You added the
> > > > destructive bit.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail
> > for
> > > > iPad
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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