Dear Umashankar:

It's important to keep in mind that the sonnet is a form that has 
evolved, and continues to evolve.  A 15 line sonnet is not a traditional 
sonnet; the main stream of the sonnet tradition in several languages, 
say from the 16th to the 20th century, always comprises 14 lines; that 
is, an octet and a sestet.  Is it any different with Bengali sonnets?  
In between the octet and the sestet is the most essential aspect of the 
sonnet, that is, the "volta", or the turn-- that is, when the meaning or 
the thrust makes a twist.  There are many different ways to do this, but 
it's important.  Apart from this turn, Shakespeare of course did an 
extra somersault at the end with the couplet.

Modern experimental sonnets do not necessarily have rhyme schemes, but 
that's getting into advanced territory, free jazz, and if you want be 
John Coltrane it makes sense to practice your scales first.  Generally 
there is a rhyme scheme, which has a very concrete effect on the meaning 
of the poem (eg., is there a couplet at the end?) - the two most common, 
Shakespearean and Petrarchan.  There are many others; and eventually it 
may make sense to let the rhyme scheme develop organically in the flow 
of the writing of the poem as Auden does.  (Auden also wrote, I think, 
the first unrhymed sonnet-- but by the time he did he had been breathing 
sonnets and sleeping with sonnets for a while)

As for more advanced territory, we could start with George Meredith 
(19th c.) who wrote interesting sixteen line sonnets that still feel 
very much like sonnets (the very cool, intense sequence, "Modern 
Love").  Gerald Stern has 12 line "American sonnets" but both of these 
cats surely wrote a lot of 14 line sonnets to get a deep feel for the 
form before they ventured out into this territory.  But I can't think of 
anyone who did a 15 line sonnet-- who was it?  It would depend on how it 
was actualised in the poetic flesh, of course, but something in me 
militates against a sonnet breaking into three like that.  It doesn't 
seem to work like a sonnet ought to-- where does the volta go?

Keep in mind that syllable counts are not the only way to measure a 
line.  You can do it in beats-- tapping it out, as Jane noted, and that 
gives a little more rhythmic flexibility while keeping the cadence.  The 
conventional English sonnet has five beats to ten syllables per line; 
the French sonnets have the alexandrine, 12 syls to six beat lines.  
Hopkins (Gerald Manley) wrote hypermetrical sonnets, with insanely long 
lines in addition to his "sonnet variants".  He was weird, God bless him.

But in the English, the beat count and not the syllable count is more 
what's, in practice, tapped out and important-- that only really changed 
with Marianne Moore's "syllabic metre", where the number of syllables 
and not the metre counts.  The value of counting a sonnet by beats is 
that you don't have to stick with iambic feet (which you would more or 
less have to do if you if you went with 5 beats - 10 syls) and you can 
work more around how long it actually takes to say a line, have shifts 
within the line.  I've been pretty influenced by the six beat line, 
often without a strict syllable count; the In Church poem alternates 
between five beats and six beats and then into 4 beats in the very last 
line, for a particular reason.  Bending the rules, after all those 
conventional sonnets I wrote.

This having been said, it is interesting to think that the greatest 
amount of innovation and flexibility happened in the very first century 
of the sonnet's invention, when it first became a craze-- that was 
Italy, 12th century, if I remember correctly.  You had several possible 
rhyme schemes floating around; and, as a fun trick, each of the fourteen 
lines of the sonnet could have a "tail", that is, an indented extra line 
that sort of extended it-- so while a sonnet was still technically 14 
lines, in practice it could be up to 28!

For more info, the Wikipedia article looks pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonnet

umashankar mantravadi wrote:

> here is a sonnet like poem; one of the earliest in a series i have not
> concluded. this was written probably in 1973.
>
> (the rules are simple: 15 lines or 14 lines: broken into 5-5-5 or 
> 4-4-3-3.
> ten syllables per line. a 11th syllable if it is necessary and the 
> line is
> still readable.
>
>
> umashankar
> >
> of the cold night air. some smoke lies curled on
> the ground. smoke from cars cigarette ends and
> dying windcast candlewicks lies lazy
> curled on the ground. dry mistless clear night air
> rises above a sleepless twisted world
> the cold night air of a more delinquent
> time of lies and deceits. I am not good
> enough for you. said not as believed truth
> but as an offering. I am even
> willing to say that for you. no not truth
> the blue smoke that unfurls from the grey smoke
> curled close to the ground. uncurl my fingers.
> nothing derived from the shape of a clenched
> hand approximates your warmth. ground upward
> the cold night air is mistless, twisted, clear
> August 10, 1973
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Meet interesting singles like you
> http://match.msn.co.in/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=234764 
> <http://match.msn.co.in/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=234764> Sign up with
> Match.com
>
>
>
> --
> You are encouraged to post poetry, respond critically to the poems 
> circulated and participate in discussions. To post, email your message 
> to [email protected] OR post online at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/post/
>
> Tell friends to subscribe to ZESTPoets by sending a blank email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], OR, if they have a Yahoo! ID, by 
> visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/join/
>
>
>
> ---theZESTcommunity--------------
>
> [1] ZESTCurrent: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCurrent/
> [2] ZESTEconomics: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTEconomics/
> [3] ZESTGlobal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTGlobal/
> [4] ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/
> [5] ZESTPoets: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/
> [6] ZESTCaste: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/
> [7] ZESTAlternative: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTAlternative/
> [8] TalkZEST: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkZEST/
> ---
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     *  Visit your group "ZESTPoets
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets>" on the web.
>        
>     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>        [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>       <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>        
>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


-- 
Vivek Narayanan
Senior Content Editor (English)
The Sarai Programme
Centre for the Study of Developing Societies
29 Rajpur Road, Delhi 110054.

Work Phone: (91-11) 2396 0040 
Mobile: (91-0) 98109 36654
Fax: (91-11) 2392 8391 



--
You are encouraged to post poetry, respond critically to the poems circulated 
and participate in discussions. To post, email your message to 
[email protected] OR post online at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/post/

Tell friends to subscribe to ZESTPoets by sending a blank email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED], OR, if they have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/join/



---theZESTcommunity--------------

[1] ZESTCurrent: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCurrent/
[2] ZESTEconomics: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTEconomics/
[3] ZESTGlobal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTGlobal/
[4] ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/
[5] ZESTPoets: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/
[6] ZESTCaste: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/
[7] ZESTAlternative: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTAlternative/
[8] TalkZEST: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkZEST/
--- 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 



Reply via email to