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On 17.03.2010 12:28, Khyron wrote:
> Note to readers: There are multiple topics discussed herein. Please
> identify which
> idea(s) you are responding to, should you respond. Also make sure to
> take in all of
> this before responding. Something you want to discuss may already be
> covered at
> a later point in this e-mail, including NDMP and ZFS ACLs. It's loooong.
>
> It seems to me that something is being overlooked (either by myself or
> others) in all
> of these discussions about backing up ZFS pools...
>
> The one thing that I keep thinking, and which I have yet to see
> discredited, is that
> ZFS file systems use POSIX semantics. So, unless you are using specific
> features
> (notably ACLs, as Paul Henson is), you should be able to backup those
> file systems
> using well known tools. The ZFS Best Practices Guide speaks to this in
> section 4.4
> (specifically 4.4.3[1]) and there have been various posters who have
> spoken of using
> other tools. (Star comes to mind, most prominently.)
>
> The Best Practices Guide is also very clear about send and receive NOT
> being
> designed explicitly for backup purposes. I find it odd that so many
> people seem to
> want to force this point. ZFS appears to have been designed to allow
> the use of
> well known tools that are available today to perform backups and
> restores. I'm not
> sure how many people are actually using NFS v4 style ACLs, but those
> people have
> the most to worry about when it comes to using tar or NetBackup or
> Networker or
> Amanda or Bacula or star to backup ZFS file systems. Everyone else,
> which appears
> to be the majority of people, have many tools to choose from, tools
> they've used
> for a long time in various environments on various platforms. The
> learning curve
> doesn't appear to be as steep as most people seem to make it out to be.
> I honestly
> think many people may be making this issue more complex than it needs to be.
>
> Maybe the people having the most problems are those who are new to
> Solaris, but
> if you have any real *nix experience, Solaris shouldn't be that
> difficult to figure out,
> especially for those with System V experience. The Linux folks? Well,
> I sorta feel
> sorry for you and I sorta don't.
>
> So, am I missing something? It wouldn't surprise me if I am. What am I
> missing?
>
> The other things I have been thinking about are NDMP support and what
> tools out
> there support NFS v4 ACLs.
>
> Has anyone successfully used NDMP support with ZFS? If so, what did you
> do? How
> did you configure your system, including any custom coding you did?
> From the looks
> of the NDMP project on os.org <http://os.org>, NDMP was integrated in
> build 102[3] but it appears
> to only be NDMP v4 not the latest, v5. Maybe NDMP support would placate
> some of
> those screaming for the send stream to be a tape backup format?
>
> As for ACLs[2], the list of tools supporting NFS v4 ACLs seems to be
> pretty small. I
> plan to spend some quality time with RFC 3530 to get my head around NFS
> v4, and
> ACLs in particular. star seems to be fairly adept, with the exception
> of the NFS v4
> ACL support. Hopefully that is forthcoming? Again, I think those
> people who are
> not using ZFS ACLs can probably perform actual tape backups (should they
> choose
> to) with existing tools. If I'm mistaken or missing something, I invite
> someone to
> please point it out.
>
> Finally, there's backup of ZVOLs. I don't know what the commercial tool
> support
> for backing up ZVOLs looks like but I know this is the *perfect* place
> for NDMP.
> Backing up ZVOLs should be priority #1 for NDMP support in
> (Open)Solaris, I think.
> Looking through the symbols in libzfs.so, I don't see anything
> specifically related to
> backup of ZVOLs in the existing code. How are people handling ZVOL backups
> today?
>
> Not to be too flip, but star looks like it might be the perfect tape
> backup software
> if it supported NDMP, NFS v4 ACLs and ZVOLs. Just thinking out loud...
>
> [1]
> http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide#Using_ZFS_With_Enterprise_Backup_Solutions
>
> [2] http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461/ftyxi?l=en&a=view
> <http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461/ftyxi?l=en&a=view>
>
> [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+ndmp/
>
> Aside: I see so many posts to this list about backup strategy for ZFS
> file systems,
> and I continue to be amazed by how few people check the archives for
> previous
> discussions before they start a new one. So many of the conversations are
> repeated over and over, with good information being spread over multiple
> threads?
> I personally find it interesting that so few people read first before
> posting. Few
> even seem to bother to do so much (little?) as a Google search which
> would yield
> several previous discussions on the topic of ZFS pool backups to tape.
>
> Oh well.
How does backing up the NFSv4 acls help you backup up a zvol (shared for
iSCSI)? Please enlighten me.
//Svein
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