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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Dedup... still in beta status (Fco Javier Garcia)
2. Re: Dedup... still in beta status (Erik Trimble)
3. Re: Dedup... still in beta status (Erik Trimble)
4. Complete Linux Noob (CarlPalmer)
5. Re: Complete Linux Noob (Freddie Cash)
6. Re: Complete Linux Noob (Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk)
7. Re: Native ZFS for Linux (Bob Friesenhahn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:53:28 PDT
From: Fco Javier Garcia <cor...@javido.com>
To: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Dedup... still in beta status
Message-ID: <1426457463.371276628042143.javamail.tweb...@sf-app1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
or as a member of the ZFS team
(which I'm not).
Then you have to be brutally good with Java
--
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop: usca22-123
Phone: x17195
Santa Clara, CA
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This message posted from opensolaris.org
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:00:42 -0700
From: Erik Trimble <erik.trim...@oracle.com>
To: Geoff Nordli <geo...@gnaa.net>
Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Dedup... still in beta status
Message-ID: <4c17cdda.6050...@oracle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 6/15/2010 11:49 AM, Geoff Nordli wrote:
From: Fco Javier Garcia
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:21 AM
Realistically, I think people are overtly-enamored with dedup as a
feature - I would generally only consider it worth-while in cases
where you get significant savings. And by significant, I'm
talking an
order of magnitude space savings. A 2x savings isn't really
enough to
counteract the down sides. Especially when even enterprise disk
space
is
(relatively) cheap.
I think dedup may have its greatest appeal in VDI environments
(think about
a
environment with 85% if the data that the virtual machine needs is
into ARC
or
L2ARC... is like a dream...almost instantaneous response... and
you can
boot a
new machine in a few seconds)...
Does dedup benefit in the ARC/L2ARC space?
For some reason, I have it in my head that for each time it
requests the
block from storage it will copy it into cache; therefore if I had
10 VMs
requesting the same dedup'd block, there will be 10 copies of the
same block
in ARC/L2ARC.
Geoff
No, that's not correct. It's the *same* block, regardless of where it
was referenced from. The cached block has no idea where it was
referenced from (that's in the metadata). So, even if I have 10 VMs,
requesting access to 10 different files, if those files have been
dedup-ed, then any "common" (i.e. deduped) blocks will be stored only
once in the ARC/L2ARC.
--
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop: usca22-123
Phone: x17195
Santa Clara, CA
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:06:40 -0700
From: Erik Trimble <erik.trim...@oracle.com>
To: Fco Javier Garcia <cor...@javido.com>
Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Dedup... still in beta status
Message-ID: <4c17cf40.9020...@oracle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 6/15/2010 11:53 AM, Fco Javier Garcia wrote:
or as a member of the ZFS team
(which I'm not).
Then you have to be brutally good with Java
Thanks, but I do get it wrong every so often (hopefully, rarely).
More
importantly, I don't know anything about the internal goings-on of the
ZFS team, so I have nothing extra to say about schedules, plans,
timing,
etc. that everyone else doesn't know. I can only speculate based on
what's been publicly said on those topics. E.g. I wish I knew when
certain bugs would be fixed, but I don't have any more visibility to
that than the public.
--
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop: usca22-123
Phone: x17195
Santa Clara, CA
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:13:25 PDT
From: CarlPalmer <dwarvenlo...@yahoo.com>
To: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: [zfs-discuss] Complete Linux Noob
Message-ID: <1918282415.381276629236528.javamail.tweb...@sf-app1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I have been researching different types of raids, and I happened
across raidz, and I am blown away. I have been trying to find
resources to answer some of my questions, but many of them are
either over my head in terms of details, or foreign to me as I am a
linux noob, and I have to admit I have never even looked at Solaris.
Are the Parity drives just that, a drive assigned to parity, or is
the parity shared over several drives?
I understand that you can build a raidz2 that will have 2 parity
disks. So in theory I could lose 2 disks and still rebuild my array
so long as they are not both the parity disks correct?
I understand that you can have Spares assigned to the raid, so that
if a drive fails, it will immediately grab the spare and rebuild the
damaged drive. Is this correct?
Now I can not find anything on how much space is taken up in the
raidz1 or raidz2. If all the drives are the same size, does a
raidz2 take up the space of 2 of the drives for parity, or is the
space calculation different?
I get that you can not expand a raidz as you would a normal raid, by
simply slapping on a drive. Instead it seems that the preferred
method is to create a new raidz. Now Lets say that I want to add
another raidz1 to my system, can I get the OS to present this as one
big drive with the space from both raid pools?
How do I share these types of raid pools across the network. Or
more specifically, how do I access them from Windows based systems?
Is there any special trick?
--
This message posted from opensolaris.org
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:23:06 -0700
From: Freddie Cash <fjwc...@gmail.com>
To: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Complete Linux Noob
Message-ID:
<aanlktinnfgqxynfbx2fnh4ewjdlhwpboldj1ngcuy...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Some of my terminology may not be 100% accurate, so apologies in
advance to
the pedants on this list. ;)
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:13 PM, CarlPalmer
<dwarvenlo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have been researching different types of raids, and I happened
across
raidz, and I am blown away. I have been trying to find resources
to answer
some of my questions, but many of them are either over my head in
terms of
details, or foreign to me as I am a linux noob, and I have to admit
I have
never even looked at Solaris.
Are the Parity drives just that, a drive assigned to parity, or is
the
parity shared over several drives?
Separate parity drives are RAID3 setups. raidz1 is similar to RAID5
in that
it uses distributed parity (parity blocks are written out to all the
disks
as needed). raidz2 is similar to RAID6. raidz3 (triple-parity
raid) is
similar to ... RAID7? Don't think there's actually any formal RAID
levels
above RAID6, is there?
I understand that you can build a raidz2 that will have 2 parity
disks. So
in theory I could lose 2 disks and still rebuild my array so long
as they
are not both the parity disks correct?
There are no "parity disks" in raidz. With raidz2, you can lose any 2
drives in the vdev, without losing any data. Lose a third drive,
though,
and everything is gone.
With raidz3, you can lose any 3 drives in the vdev without losing
any data.
Lose a fourth drive, though, and everything is gone.
I understand that you can have Spares assigned to the raid, so that
if a
drive fails, it will immediately grab the spare and rebuild the
damaged
drive. Is this correct?
Depending on the version of ZFS being used, and whether or not you
set the
property that controls this feature, yes. Hot-spares will start
rebuilding
a degraded vdev right away.
Now I can not find anything on how much space is taken up in the
raidz1 or
raidz2. If all the drives are the same size, does a raidz2 take up
the
space of 2 of the drives for parity, or is the space calculation
different?
Correct. raidz1 loses 1 drive worth of space to parity. raidz2
loses 2
drives worth of space. raidz3 loses 3 drives worth of space.
I get that you can not expand a raidz as you would a normal raid,
by simply
slapping on a drive. Instead it seems that the preferred method is
to
create a new raidz. Now Lets say that I want to add another raidz1
to my
system, can I get the OS to present this as one big drive with the
space
from both raid pools?
Yes. That is the whole point of pooled storage. :) As you add
vdevs to
the pool, the available space increases. There's no partitioning
required,
you just create ZFS filesystems and volumes as needed.
How do I share these types of raid pools across the network. Or more
specifically, how do I access them from Windows based systems? Is
there any
special trick?
The same way you access any harddrive over the network:
- NFS
- SMB/CIFS
- iSCSI
- etc
It just depends at what level you want to access the storage (files,
shares,
block devices, etc).
--
Freddie Cash
fjwc...@gmail.com
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:32:02 +0200 (CEST)
From: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <r...@karlsbakk.net>
To: CarlPalmer <dwarvenlo...@yahoo.com>
Cc: OpenSolaris ZFS discuss <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Complete Linux Noob
Message-ID: <2566843.64.1276630322625.javamail.r...@zimbra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
<snip/>
How do I share these types of raid pools across the network. Or more
specifically, how do I access them from Windows based systems? Is
there any special trick?
Most of your questions are answered here
http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/download/Community+Group+zfs/docs/zfslast.pdf
Vennlige hilsener / Best regards
roy
--
Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
(+47) 97542685
r...@karlsbakk.net
http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/
--
I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres
intelligibelt. Det er et element?rt imperativ for alle pedagoger ?
unng? eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de
fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer p? norsk.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:03:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bob Friesenhahn <bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us>
To: Joerg Schilling <joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de>
Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Native ZFS for Linux
Message-ID:
<alpine.gso.2.01.1006151456200.12...@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Joerg Schilling wrote:
Sorry but your reply is completely misleading as the people who
claim that
there is a legal problem with having ZFS in the Linux kernel would
of course
also claim that Reiserfs cannot be in the FreeBSD kernel.
It seems that it is a license violation to link a computer containing
GPLed code to the Internet. I think I heard on usenet or a blog that
it was illegal to link GPLed code with non-GPLed code. The Internet
itself is obviously a derived work and is therefore subject to the
GPL.
Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
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