Thank you for saying this so well. +1
Jim On Apr 16, 2009, at 12:06 AM, Gary Poster wrote: > > On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: > >> Here are a list of things I have seen that you may mean when you say >> "Zope 3". I'm sure I missed several: >> >> 1. Whatever is included in the Zope 3 tgz that you download. >> >> 2. All the packages included in the Zope 3 KGS. (Should be the same >> as >> 1, if I understand correctly.) >> >> 3. 1 or 2 minus the ZMI. >> >> 4. The zope.app.publication publisher. >> >> 5. A loose set of packages starting with zope.*, zc.* and z3c.* >> >> 6. A strictly defined (by the Zope Toolkit KGS) set of packages >> starting with zope.*, zc.* and z3c.* that is central and common to >> Zope 3 in the sense of 1 or 2, and also Grok and Zope 2. >> >> 7. Technologies that you use when you develop with the packages in 5 >> and 6. >> >> >> I propose that the name Zope 3 applies *only* to 1 and 2. If future >> versions of 1 or 2 gets released without the ZMI (as discussed in >> other threads), then of course 1, 2 and 3 is the same. >> >> Opinions? > > I've been away on a vacation of sorts, and find myself happy to not > have been around for this firestorm. > > A few observations. > > - I very much agree with Lennart's observation that the definition of > "Zope 3" is not clear. > > - It may have been a mistake to use the name "Zope 3", but it is done > now, and done a *long* time ago. Trying to outright kill it feels > like thrashing. > > - Moreover, because *we* don't know what "Zope 3" means, I'm afraid > users outside viewers are going to easily misinterpret any kind of > message framed in the terms of "Zope 3's death" or "abandonment" or > whatever. How are they supposed to know what it means? > > I was concerned about Tim Hoffman's statement in the long "who wants > to maintain..." thread: "It seems from all the discussion of late that > we might of chosen a architectural dead end (though I don't think > so)." We're not declaring the Zope 3 libraries (toolkit, whatever, > bah) a dead end; far from it. But how easy it is to make a sound bite > from this discussion into basically that message? "Zope 3: > architectural dead end." I don't care for that, myself, nor do I find > it accurate. > > This message seems like a reasonable start to me: "Zope 3 has become > focused on supporting frameworks and applications, rather than trying > to be one itself. It is now called the Zope Toolkit. Parts of it are > used by Zope 2, Plone, Grok, Repoze.bfg, and by many other different > applications and frameworks." > > That message implies two things to me. > > First, to start with, this is just a rename. Zope 3, as defined by > the KGS, becomes the Zope Toolkit. > > Second, the "Zope Toolkit" is about supporting other frameworks. That > means that it is reasonable to expect that the packages and the parts > of packages that were about the ZMI will quite possibly die a typical > open source death of not enough people caring anymore. > > I don't think trying to guess which parts or packages will die is a > particularly useful exercise. The community will support what the > community supports...as usual. This is open source. You're gambling > that enough other people will be there with you to make it worthwhile, > and you may be required to step up with money or talent or energy to > make that happen. > > So, again, in sum, I propose that this discussion should simply be > reduced to a rename to start with: Zope 3, as defined by the KGS -> > Zope Toolkit. The software switch that this name change implies has > started quite some time ago, with the eggification, and will continue > in its natural and usual open-source course. > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) -- Jim Fulton Zope Corporation _______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )