On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Tres Seaver <tsea...@palladion.com> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Baiju M wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hanno Schlichting <ha...@hannosch.eu> wrote: >>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Baiju M <mba...@zeomega.com> wrote: >>>> I would like to get your opinion about this position statement, >>>> as it involve the wider Zope ecosystem. However, we tried to be >>>> diplomatic about other project's relationship with ZTK as we don't >>>> want to claim anything about others: >>>> >>>> http://wiki.zope.org/bluebream/BlueBreamName >>> Two things: >>> >>> - Repoze is a brand name like Zope but not a particular project. BFG >>> is a web application framework. BFG was certainly never based on Zope >>> 3. But even the claim that it is based on the ZTK is far fetched. It >>> depends on zope.component, zope.configuration and their dependencies. >>> That's similar to Twisted depending on zope.interface or TurboGears >>> depending on zope.sqlalchemy and transaction. Presenting it as if the >>> dependency of BFG onto the ZTK is similar in scope to Grok or Zope2 is >>> misleading. >>> >>> - Plone isn't a web application framework but a specific application. >>> Zope 2 is a web application framework. If you want to include Plone >>> into the graph, you have to put it at a different level than the other >>> things. And both the dependency on Zope 3 and the ZTK are mediated via >>> the Zope 2 dependency. >>> >>> So a 2010 graph should read more like: >>> >>> Plone >>> Zope2 Grok BlueBream BFG >>> ZTK >>> ZCA >>> >>> Where there's a direct line from BFG to ZCA bypassing the ZTK. In the >>> 2008 version ZTK would be Zope 3 with BlueBream missing. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I have changed the Repoze to BFG. >> >> But the lines are just to indicate that there is some relation. >> We tried to be very careful when talking about the relation >> as we don't want to claim anything, at the same time, >> it doesn't contradict anything in reality: >> >> For example: >> >> "Over time, other web frameworks, such as Grok / BFG evolved around >> Zope 3, which primarily utilize certain library packages from Zope 3 >> and don't make use of the Zope 3 application server." >> >> In the case of Plone also, it's very true: >> >> "Other products, such as Plone also started to make use of the Zope 3 >> component architecture and the accompanied packages" >> >> Also we emphasized: >> >> "We cannot officially speak for other projects, so you can check their >> documentation to understand the relationship with ZTK" >> >> Sorry, we don't have any plan to show the exact relationship between >> projects. > > Channeling Chris here: > > BFG can't truly be said to be a Zope3-derived framework: it doesn't > *require* application developers to use the ZCA, altho[ugh it happens to > use the ZCA in its implementation (primarily as an optimization at this > point). Its dependencies have never included more than a handful of > Zope3 packages (zope.interface, zope.component, zope.configuration, and > dependencies). > > Its notions of a view is radically different than a Zope3 view, for > instance: in BFG, a view is nearly always just a function or other > callable, and only rarely (primarily in migrated code) a class / factory > taking context and request and returning a "view object." > > In 2010, *none* of the Zope3 technologies are "required knowlege" for a > BFG developer: you can literally write a BFG app which imports > *nothing* from the zope.* namespace at all (nor ZODB and related > packages, etc.)
Please read the sentence once again: "BFG evolved around Zope 3, which primarily utilize certain library packages from Zope 3 and don't make use of the Zope 3 application server." We don't claim anything you said here. Each words are used very carefully. Regards, Baiju M _______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )