So in your opinion, khazeh, are there any "divines" who guide their people as described?
Dear Gilberto I feel that God is bringing you closer to my heart with every letter which you post on these important themes. I just wish to say that I appreciate your time and effort in sorting out these questions, and in many ways, I’m learning from you. In going back to your substantive question above, of course such divines exist otherwise the Pen of Baha’u’llah would not have described them. In fact, in a spiritual deep sense, I believe that there is a creative aspect to the utterances of God in each age, and that such divines will be created by the will of God. Insha'Allah. And in this regard, I beg again that you look as I have done several times with interest at this Message of the Universal House of Justice to all the religious leaders of all Faiths. http://bahai-library.com/published.uhj/religious.leaders.html **** Nor should it be thought for a moment that the followers of Baha'u'llah either seek to degrade or even belittle the rank of the world's religious leaders, whether Christian, Muslim, or of any other denomination, should their conduct conform to their professions, and be worthy of the position they occupy. "Those divines," Baha'u'llah has affirmed, "...who are truly adorned with the ornament of knowledge and of a goodly character are, verily, as a head to the body of the world, and as eyes to the nations. The guidance of men hath, at all times, been and is dependent upon these blessed souls." … (Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, Pages: 110-111)**** 2) Dear Gilberto, you wrote [Also, I just looked at some other sections of "the Promised Day has Come" and I think it is better to be candid about what is in your books. Especially now with the internet being what it is, it doesn't make any sense to hide what is in them. In the section entitled "Words to Muslim Ecclesiastics" it says: "In that same Book the Báb thus addresses the Shí'ihs, as well as the entire body of the followers of the Prophet: "O concourse of Shí'ihs! Fear ye God, and Our Cause, which concerneth Him Who is the Most Great Remembrance of God. For great is its fire, as decreed in the Mother-Book." "O people of the Qur'án! Ye are as nothing unless ye submit unto the Remembrance of God and unto this Book. If ye follow the Cause of God, We will forgive you your sins, and if ye turn aside from Our command, We will, in truth, condemn your souls in Our Book, unto the Most Great Fire. We, verily, do not deal unjustly with men, even to the extent of a speck on a date stone."] Once again, I appreciate your effort in trying to clarify different aspects of the utterances in Baha’i books. I must say in all sincerity and humility that there is no question of hiding any references. The Baha’i revelation, as you kindly note, is available to everyone. Presumably you quoted this section is to show that there is a perceived contrast between the utterance of the Exalted Bab here and other passages. I would submit the following suggestion: When you look at all the divine scriptures, you will find different emphases in different parts of the same book. In relation to the passage above for example, the Bab says that you are nothing unless you submit … In the original Arabic, this clearly echoes this passage of the Holy Qur’an in Surih 2: 113, in which if you study, God says that the followers of the previous Dispensations are as nothing even they were busy reciting the Book. While in a more dramatic reference in the Qur’an 062.005 YUSUFALI: The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of God: and God guides not people who do wrong. PICKTHAL: The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of God. And God guideth not wrongdoing folk. SHAKIR: The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of God; and God does not guide the unjust people. Now, at first glance, these verses seem very ‘strong’, but the point is that this verse is in a late Medina súrih, late in the Revelation of His Holiness Muhammad, and the judgement is in a sense complete in that Dispensation. Thus, the stronger utterances such as the one you have quoted from ‘The Promised Day is Come’ is indicative of such a phase in Divine Revelation. I’m sure, on reflection, you will see where I’m coming from. Similarly, in the New Testament, in St. Matthew’s Gospel, towards the end of His ministry, His Holiness Jesus Christ uttered all those ‘Woe unto you’ utterances Mt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in…. [ 023.044 > YUSUFALI: THEN SENT WE OUR MESSENGERS IN SUCCESSION: every time there > came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood: so We > made them follow each other (in punishment): We made them as a tale > (that is told): So away with a people that will not believe! It says you the messengers were sent one after another but it doesn't necessarily let you say exactly how the messengers or their messages are related. Is one message higher than another? Deeper than another? Easier than another? Harder than another? Better? Is it the exact same message? For example, in Martin Ling's book "What is Sufism?" he talks about the various revelations but he compares them to waves coming in from the Ocean. Every once in a while, the wave comes, and leaves behind water. But the water is all the same. It comes from the same Ocean. So is that what you mean? Or are you trying to say that the water in the new wave is different from the water in the previous wave? Peace Gilberto] 3) In relation to your third point, again, the question is regarding the differences between the Messages and the Messengers. The Baha’i Teachings clearly state that all of the Messengers of God have the same Spirit, and have the same qualities of omnipotence and wisdom and knowledge. If one does not recognize all of them, then one does not recognize any of them, and conversely, if one rejects one of them, one has rejected all. Just as in the Qur’an, the people in Noah’s time, in rejecting Noah, rejected the Messengers, whereas there were not many Messengers before Noah. It is an obligation of everyone to investigate all claims independently, as you are doing, and determine the truth or untruth of them. By their fruits, ye shall know them. In regard to their Messages, it depends on the capacity of the people they are giving them to. In this day, the capacity of mankind has become such that he is able to comprehend a previously unfathomable Revelation, of which Christ said, ‘I have much to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.’ Baha’u’llah has the same Spirit as His Holiness Muhammad but today the other twenty-five letters of all knowledge have been revealed to mankind whereas only two letters had been revealed previously. [multiple references in the textbooks of Islamic hadiths such as the Bihar] I send you my warmest greetings on a very sad day--when the largest number of Americans were killed in Iraq and on a day that we so fervently pray for peace between these great civilizations. God bless you and you are in my prayers. khazeh __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
