On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:23:31 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gilberto wrote: > > Ok then. So in your opinion what were the original God-given rules > > governing warfare which were followed by Muhammad and Hussein? > [D.A.L.] I cannot claim to have a sufficiently deep understanding of Islam > to give you a good answer to this. I've based my understanding on the > statements by many Muslims that Islam is a peaceful religion. > Gilberto: > > Offhand, that sounds no more violent than the Bahai faith.
> [D.A.L.] Beside the early formative years in which the Babís and Bahá'ís > clashed with the Islamic theocracy, I cannot understand why you see the > Bahá'í Faith as being violent. Gilberto: I don't think I said that the Bahai faith is violent. But Bahais making a point of saying "holy war" has been blotted out the book especially combined with the idea of progressive revelation, would give the impression that they are somehow specifically claiming to be less violent than islam. Is that a fair statement? I think if you are going to compare religions, ideals should be compared to ideals. And realities should be compared to realities. For example, it doesn't make sense to compare a pretty statement about non-violence from the Bahai writings with the recent suicide bombing in Iraq. You have to look at what the actual teachings of Muhammad and the Quran on warfare are and you compare them to what the Bahai writings say. And if you are going to compare histories, then look at both the high parts and low parts. > > Gilberto: > > In terms of world history, the Muslim world has generally been more > > peaceful. If you look at Christendom there is alot of disunity and > > violence which comes from the West, through the colonial period, and > > the rise if nation-states. > > [D.A.L.] I can't argue with that. I agree with your point about > Christendom. I don't, however, see how that supports the allegation that > the Bahá'í Faith is characterized by a history of violence. > Gilberto: I've never said the Bahai faith is characterized by a history of violence. What I would claim is that its rules on the use of force and violence are not significantly closer to pacifism than Islam's. [On the example of abortion clinic doctors being killed by Christian terrorists] > Gilberto: > > Incidentally, isn't the Bahai faith pro-life? Is abortion the > >same as murder? In the Bahai faith would stopping > >abortions be considered the same as stopping a murder? > [D.A.L.] I think that all religions are ultimately pro-life. This is as > much a cultural issue as a religious one. Your question whether abortion is > the same as murder is one that has caused dissension for generations, and I > don't think we can settle it here. The Bahá'í Faith allows a great deal of > personal freedom, and probably most of us (Bahá'ís) would agree that there > are times when abortion is justified....although I do not speak for anyone > but myself. > I can't help thinking of the situation in the reactionary Islamic > theocracies where the victim of a rape is considered to have > shamed her > community, and is in danger of being put to > death. This would be unlikely to occur in either a Christian > or Bahá'í > setting. I don't think this is a religious issue. There is no religious justification for this kind of a practice. The way "shame" and "honor" play a role in certain societies is basically due to culture not religion. I think that much is clear from how you've described it. I mean the Bahai notion of progressive revelation says pretty clearly that Islam is more spiritually progressed than Christianity so honor-killings aren't something which come out of religious principles and I certainly don't have to convert to another religion to be able to say that honor killings are wrong. Besides, the demographics of Christianity are changing. Christianity is becoming extinct in Europe and moving south to Asia, Africa and Latin America. I while ago I heard newstory that some European countries are facing shortages of priests and so they filled their vacancies with surplus priests from Africa. I think if you took North-South developed world- developing world issues into account, it would help you see more clearly which issues have their root in religion and which have origins elsewhere. Peace Gilberto __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
