On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:14:40 -0600, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gilberto > At 05:53 PM 12/27/2004, you wrote: > >>I'm not sure about why Perennialism would preclude that sort of behavior. > >>At least when I think about it, Perennialism might imply a theoretical and > >>intellectual tolerance for many different religions and perspectives but on > >>the level of action, I think one can still follow the specific dictates of > >>a particular path, however exclusive it might seem.<< > I think you would then need to provide evidence that the Bab regarded His > Revelation as "a particular path."
I'm not sure what you mean. Those seeming exclusive statements in the Bab's writings combined with a kind of perennialism (that all religions are fit to be universal) make sense from a traditionalist perennialism. Mark: It seems to me He was attempting to make a radical break with virtually everything which had taken place before Him, not that He was presenting Babism as just another tariqat or dharma. If one of the points of perennialism is *tolerance* of other paths, I don't see much of that tolerance in the Bab's writings. I'm not saying the Bab is actually a member of one of the older religions. And again, the tolerance can be theoretical. > > Although I don't know if my thesis can be justified by the Bab's Own > writings, I would, as a qualification, suggest that the Bab's intolerance was > an instance of hikmat. It was functional, not actual. (Although I don't know > if this conclusion can be justified by the Bab's writings.) Certainly, the > Bab never enforced most of the radical aspects of His shariah. Regardless, > the fact that He laid out these extreme provisions would seem to vitiate > against a Babi perennialism. Gilberto: Where do you go to find out what the "shariah" of the Bab was? I've looked at the writings of the Bab but the stuff I've seen tends not to include much legislation or commandments. > >>Perennialism isn't a syncretism.<< > Some approaches to perennialism are syncretistic. Theosophy would be an > example. So are some of the schools of surat shabd yoga (Radhasoami Satsang) > which explicitly claim to represent the perennial philosophy. Others, such as > the ones advocated by most self-identified traditionalists (Schuon, Guenon, > Nasr, etc.), oppose syncretism. Gilberto: Sure. But your arguments against the Bab being a perennialist made me think you were just thinking of the former case. > >>I could be a perennialist Muslim but that doesn't mean I go to mass and > >>drink the communion wine or eat food sacrificed to hindu idols or eat ribs > >>at a local church bar-b-q.<< > > Are you a traditionalist? Most traditionalists argue that persons should > recognize the unity of religions (on the esoteric level) while simultaneously > engaging in the exoteric praxes of a specific tradition. So, yes, if you are > a traditionalist, participating in the ceremonies of other religions > traditions would not be expected. I wouldn't call myself a card-carrying Traditionalist or Perennialist but I like the authors I've read from that perspective (Nasr, Schuon, Lings, Eaton) and their ideas appeal to me. > Quoting: > >>If the religions are true it is because each time it is God who has spoken, > >>and if they are different it is because God has spoken in different > >>"languages" in conformity with the receptacles. Finally, if they are > >>absolute and exclusive, it is because in each of them God has said "I". > >>- Frithjof Schuon (1963)<< Mark: > I agree with Schuon as far as he goes. What is lacking in that quotation is > any reference to a progression of these so-called traditions. Gilberto: That's just it though. I think that if God is really speaking and a religion is worth its salt, it doesn't need to be replaced by another in order to progress. If the revelation is really inspired, then morally sensitive people from the particular religious tradiition can still go back to the revelation and apply the truth in ways which are appropriate for our times. Gilberto: > >>And just as other religions have claims to being final, exclusive, > >>ultimate, which the Bahais relativize and wouldn't take seriously because > >>they believe in Bahaullah. Perhaps the Bahai claims to be progressed or > >>advanced should also be relativized.<< Mark: > All claims of progression or advancement are temporally relative, including > those relating to the Baha'i Faith. Gilberto: I would think about it differently. Allowing for the moment the possibility that Bahaullah really is a Manifestation, then perhaps the claim of the Bahai faith to be the most recent progressed faith is a relative one which depends on your perspective, just as the Jewish claim that the Torah is valid forever (at least it says so in the Bible) is a relative one. Gilberto > >>Perhaps God has spoken and continues to be found within all these various > >>communities.<< Mark: > I think that God can, and does, speak to many people. Gilberto: > >>And members of these religious traditions continue to be spiritually > >>nourished by their scriptures and their rituals, and continue to experience > >>God genuinely in their lives.<< Mark: > Agreed. Gilberto: > >>But I think part of being in a particular religion means taking the > >>perspective of that religion seriously.<< Mark: > Well, yes, that is the traditionalist standpoint. Sure, and it would also include taking a traditional understanding of "seal of the prophets" seriously as well. Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
