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So, you don't want to ask the question. That's fine. I just hope that the Saudi government goes along with your understanding of Islam vis a vis us Baha'is, apostasy, kAAfer, najas, etc. Best regards, Iskandar Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Gilberto Simpson <gilberto.simp...@gmail.com> Sender: <bounce-510709-2080...@list.jccc.edu>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:00:51 To: Baha'i Studies<bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies" <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Subject: Re: Ablutions The Baha'i Studies Listserv "apostate" or kaffir are terms with neutral meanings which may or may not apply to particular Bahais. The more important question is how should Bahais be treated. I posted links from Sunni websites on the cleanliness of non-Muslim bathroom floor and the permissibility of non-Muslims entering the masjid. They are both based on the assumption that the human body is assumed to be clean unless known to be otherwise. From my own readings I know that this position which you seem to want to foist on Muslims is not a mainstream Sunni view and I think that the burden should be on you to find a "leading Sunni mufti" who claims that the body of a a Bahai is najis and therefore Muslims are required to ostracize them on religious grounds. This position is unique to Iran as far as I can tell and so as I already mentioned I would put it in the same category is the racist exclusionary practices which existed in the US against Blacks and Latinos. They were for a specific time and specific place and have no use today. On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <iskandar....@gmail.com> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I think it would be a great idea if Gilberto or Matt ask Sistani or Fazel > Lankarani about Baha'is specifically, if they consider us Baha'is as najas > infidels apostates or kAAfir or mushrik. > > Dear Matt and Gilberto, will you both kindly do ask this question in > separate letters from the Shiah Ayatollahs Lankarani, Khamenei, and Sistani > and from other leading Sunni mufti scholars? > > > Best regards > > Iskandar > > > > > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>> >>> You mean the same Imams whom Bahaullah called >>> " the manifestations of the power of God, and the >>> sources of His authority, and the repositories of His knowledge, and >>> the daysprings of His commandments."? >> >> As I said, I don't know how authentic those ahadith are. >> >>> I'm not saying that people aren't being mistreated. I'm primarily >>> questioning how the mistreatment is being framed. You want to blame >>> Islam or Muslims as Muslims. >> >> I believe the issue was najas, not Islam or Muslims. >> >>> You are missing the point. I'm not saying that it is "just" Jews. If >>> anything, it is "just" Persians (of a certain era). Maybe you should >>> blame the Safavids and their legacy instead of Islam. >> >> I think the fact that the Safavids forcibly converted Iran to Shi'ism >> was a problem, but the intolerance towards religious minorities was >> introduced by the 'ulama brought in from Iraq, so it isn't just an >> Iranian thing. >>> >>> I think you are mischaracterizing what "the ulama" are saying. And >>> they don't speak with one voice. Grand Ayatolla Sistani and Grand >>> Ayatollah Fazel Lankarani both explicitly hold that Jews and >>> Christians are ritually clean. And Sistani is basically the highest >>> ranking 12-er cleric in Iraq. >> >> If they say Baha'is are not najas I'll be impressed. >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:iskandar....@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:leave-510688-20805...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> ly...@list.jccc.edu >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:gilberto.simp...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510702-684...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:iskandar....@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510709-20805...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:%%emailaddr%% Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:%%email.unsub%% Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/%%list.name%% Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
