>From what I've been reading on Supercritical Co2 http://p2library.nfesc.navy.mil/P2_Opportunity_Handbook/5_17.html, it is an excellent organic solvent, but I don't know how well it would do on the types of deposits the rovers have been finding --- Michael Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Gary, among the staunch Martian water advocates, > you've made what I think is > the best contribution to the debate so far. This > contribution is the phrase > "satisfactorily uncomfortable." That's got my vote > for Oxymoron of the > Month. And it's quite a bit funnier than Eugene > Leitl's non sequitur, > "Faith = absence of data." > > From what I can see, all we have is this: > > (1) there is solid evidence of water chemistry > (2) there is persuasive evidence of liquid movement > on the surface > > Where is the evidence that the water chemistry stems > from the same liquid > that moved on the surface, meaning that this liquid > was certainly almost > entirely water? > > For your sake, I interpret the following as a > Freudian slip, but as a wry > joke: > > > BTW, us scientists do solicit funding, but most > try to not let the > > facts get in the way. > > As for this: > > > you and others on this list (Eugen, Jim, et al.) > have made it obvious > > [liquid CO2] too much of a long shot. > > ... well, "too much of long shot" is everyday > English for "neglibly > probable." Certain pundits' rantings > notwithstanding, probability is a > measure of belief. "Frequentist" arguments are > still fundamentally this > Bayesian measure, since probability and statistics > have been intelligently > co-designed for agreement at the limit of > statistical observation. Do we > have enough data for a "frequentist" probability > assessment about liquid CO2 > flows on Mars? I haven't seen it. So we're back to > probability as a > measure of belief. And that takes us back to > theory, still far from > complete. > > From dozens of casual observations, it's pretty easy > to build a frequentist > case for the intuitively obvious proposition > "heavier things fall faster." > Ancient Greek ballisticians (a smarter bunch than > people realized until > recently) must certainly have known that this wasn't > true, but probably > shrugged off the popular misconception, because > their jobs were safe as long > as there were imperious Romans, bloodthirsty > pirates, and other Greeks > willing to go to war with the ballisticians' > city-states. Just as people in > Columbus' time who knew better could shrug off the > superstition that the > earth was flat. Any ship's captain who made an > issue of it wasn't going to > get a good navigator, and that ship would be > increasingly unlikely to make > it back to port. Evolution in action. > > But we're dealing with evidence of water on Mars > here, where it's extremely > expensive and time-consuming to make even a handful > of the required > observations, and in a context whose political > economy is a very different > kettle of fish than the one from which Greek > ballisticians and 15th century > navigators ladled out such nourishing broth. Gary, > can you tell me for sure > that you know that there have been enough of the > right kinds of observations > to make an assessment of liquid CO2 flows on Mars as > being *neglibly* > probable? Until I see evidence of such > observations, I would tend to go > with (literal) weight of evidence: there is a huge > amount of CO2 on Mars, > but apart from the polar caps, the only evidence of > water on other parts of > the surface has been derived from subtle chemical > experiments by probes that > can cover only a small amount of that surface. > > -michael turner > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary McMurtry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:32 AM > Subject: Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in > Mars Rocks > > > > > > Michael, > > > > First, may I suggest a better question to bat > about may be "if there > > is now mounting evidence for abundant liquid water > once on Mars, > > where did it go and why?". I appreciate your > pursuit of a competing > > hypothesis for liquid CO2, because I think in > trying to suggest it, > > you and others on this list (Eugen, Jim, et al.) > have made it obvious > > it's too much of a long shot. > > > > BTW, us scientists do solicit funding, but most > try to not let the > > facts get in the way. Most of our funding awards > are peer reviewed, > > which although an imperfect and increasingly > overtaxed process, still > > functions to weed out the crud. As you probably > know, unlike > > religion, science is self-correcting and evolves > through time. We > > are satisfactorily uncomfortable with our present > knowledge state. > > > > Gary > > > > >--- Michael Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> So I'm still holding out for a possible CO2 > > >> sea/ocean/lake as an explanation > > >> for features that we, on our water planet, > associate > > >> only with bodies of > > >> water. That doesn't mean that there haven't > *also* > > >> been bodies of water on > > >> Mars, just that it doesn't look like the case > is > > >> closed yet. Unless I've > > >> missed something. > > >> > > >> -michael turner > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> == > > >> You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick > mailing > > >> list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> Project information and list (un)subscribe > info: > > >> http://klx.com/europa/ > > >> > > >As I understand it, the recent findings by the > rovers > > >indicate deposits of gypsum and salt, which > dissolve > > >in water, but not in supercritical CO2 > > > > > >===== > > > > > >Sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > >James McEnanly > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on > time. > > >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > >== > > >You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing > list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Project information and list (un)subscribe info: > http://klx.com/europa/ > > > > > > == > > You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing > list: === message truncated ===
===== Sincerely James McEnanly __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
