Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dear Fariborz, However, taken as a general mandate, one can interpret whosoever ariseth for the triumph of My cause can be interpreted as fellow believers as well. I would agree with this. Again, with the qualification of encouragement and support rather than serve. To be more explicit: we can serve the Cause by encouraging and supporting (through combined effort; financially, etc.) other believers who arise... i.e.: pioneers, travel teachers, institutions, etc. I am not sure I would interpret the statement to mean a king that may embrace the principles but not recognize manifestation? Can you expound please? Hu, firstly, Baha'u'llah did not -place upon- the king the condition of recognition or acceptance of the Manifestation or Revelation. Secondly, the prerequisite Baha'u'llah does establish is that such a king ...will, for the sake of God, arise for the triumph of this wronged, this oppressed people. (of the Earth) Third, it's as though, Baha'u'llah then assures the king/s that His followers (Baha'is) will promote (assist, encourage, support, etc.) that effort. The last two sentences of this passage, I feel, IS addressed to the Baha'is: Happy is the man that hearkeneth and observeth My counsel. Woe unto him that faileth to fulfil My wish. It is as though He is saying I'm making this commitment on your behalf... do not disappoint Me! On a much smaller scale... for several years the Baha'is of a large Alaskan community annually recognized an individual in the community-at-large who, through selfless devotion, rendered a service to the community. They were honored with a banquet and received a plaque. These were well publicized events and appreciated by the recipients as well as their family, friends, and colleagues; and the general public. To my knowledge, only one of these recipients, later embraced the Faith. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Thank you. It's getting clearer. Explain to me the nuances of "serve" as compared to "encourage, support". I always understood service as a baha'i as to help/assist an endeavor. This ,of course, IMO, can take a lot of different forms including physically serving, financially aiding, morally supporting, etc. Is this correct or am I misinterpreting the word? Fariborz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
As you can see you have some literal phrases in here... first duty... and serve those that have recognized. In my subsequent responses I've responded to what I thought was your interpretation of the found passage. Which does not, in fact, combine those two phrases of first duty or serve those that have recognized. This leads me to think of another quote I focused on a few years back, but can't find now. It was something to the effect that if someone (i.e. another believer) asked a Baha'i to do a service for the cause if is as if Baha'u'llah (or maybe it was 'Abdul-Baha) Himself asked them to do it. Does anyone know where I might find that quote? Thanks, Patti __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
In a message dated 11/24/2004 2:58:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Explain to me the nuances of "serve" as compared to "encourage, support". I always understood service as a baha'i as to help/assist an endeavor. This ,of course, IMO, can take a lot of different forms including physically serving, financially aiding, morally supporting, etc. Is this correct or am I misinterpreting the word? Dear Fairborz, Usually it denotes aiding in a suppordinate capacity. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
In a message dated 11/24/2004 6:44:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was something to the effect that if someone (i.e.another believer) asked a Baha'i to do a service for the cause if is as ifBaha'u'llah (or maybe it was 'Abdul-Baha) Himself asked them to do it. Doesanyone know where I might find that quote? Dear Patti, I think you may have in mind the Hidden Word which says if any of His servants asks *anything* of us(not just service to the Cause) we should regard their face as His Face. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dear Fariborz, Knowing how frustrating it can be to retrieve a special quote, I'm happy this is what you were looking for. However, if I may, I'd like to point out - in consideration of language barriers - And, without doubt you are much further advanced than I in mastering languages... To: ...promote the welfare... of Such a king (or leader} -who may embrace the Principles of the Faith and yet, not recognize the manifestation IS NOT the same as your reference To: ...one should serve those that believe... Without doubt we should encourage, support and honor such efforts -those that uplift the oppressed of humanity. Remembering that this particular passage is addressed to the Kings of the Earth. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dearest Sandra, Thanks for taking time out to look at this in detail. 1)I do agree that in the context of the address to a king it does not make sense to generalize it. However, taken as a general mandate, one can interpret whosoever ariseth for the triumph of My cause can be interpreted as fellow believers as well. 2)I am not sure I would interpret the statement to mean a king that may embrace the principles but not recognize manifestation? Can you expound please? Fariborz ...promote the welfare... of Such a king (or leader} -who may embrace the Principles of the Faith and yet, not recognize the manifestation IS NOT the same as your reference To: ...one should serve those that believe... Quotation: They who follow Me must strive, under all circumstances, to promote the welfare of whosoever will arise for the triumph of My Cause, and must at all times prove their devotion and fidelity unto him. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Is there a line somewhere in Aqdas or elsewhere that says after the Recognition one should serve those that believe? Fariborz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
In a message dated 11/21/2004 2:26:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a line somewhere in Aqdas or elsewhere that says after the Recognition one should serve those that believe? Not to my knowledge. Obedience to the Laws comes after recognition, not obedience to others. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dear Fariborz, Personally, I cannot recall a phrase which implies ...after the Recognition one should serve those that believe... The closest would be directives to the Institutions to serve the servants. Otherwise, those references to serve that I've located seem to address the willingness to serve humanity (if you will) and exemplify the Teachings by our deeds. Service in isolation would not achieve the aim of sharing the Revelation of Baha'u'llah by word or deed, as appealing as that might be! lovingly, Sandra A few more quotes: A DESCRIPTION OF THE KITAB-I-AQDAS BY SHOGHI EFFENDI TAKEN FROM GOD PASSES BY, HIS HISTORY OF THE FIRST BAHÁ'Í CENTURY (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 11) . Bahá'u'lláh exhorts His followers to consort, with amity and concord and without discrimination, with the adherents of all religions; warns them to guard against fanaticism, sedition, pride, dispute and contention; inculcates upon them immaculate cleanliness, strict truthfulness, spotless chastity, trustworthiness, hospitality, fidelity, courtesy, forbearance, justice and fairness; counsels them to be even as the fingers of one hand and the limbs of one body; calls upon them to arise and serve His Cause; and assures them of His undoubted aid. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 14) We cherish the hope that one of the kings of the earth will, for the sake of God, arise for the triumph of this wronged, this oppressed people. Such a king will be eternally extolled and glorified. God hath prescribed unto this people the duty of aiding whosoever will aid them, of serving his best interests, and of demonstrating to him their abiding loyalty. They who follow Me must strive, under all circumstances, to promote the welfare of whosoever will arise for the triumph of My Cause, and must at all times prove their devotion and fidelity unto him. Happy is the man that hearkeneth and observeth My counsel. Woe unto him that faileth to fulfil My wish. (Baha'u'llah, The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 13-15) The fourth Glad-Tidings Should any of the kings -- may God aid them -- arise to protect and help this oppressed people, all must vie with one another in loving and in serving him. This matter is incumbent upon everyone. Well is it with them that act accordingly. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 22) O peoples of the world! Forsake all evil, hold fast that which is good. Strive to be shining examples unto all mankind, and true reminders of the virtues of God amidst men. He that riseth to serve My Cause should manifest My wisdom, and bend every effort to banish ignorance from the earth. Be united in counsel, be one in thought. Let each morn be better than its eve and each morrow richer than its yesterday. Man's merit lieth in service and virtue and not in the pageantry of wealth and riches. Take heed that your words be purged from idle fancies and worldly desires and your deeds be cleansed from craftiness and suspicion. Dissipate not the wealth of your precious lives in the pursuit of evil and corrupt affection, nor let your endeavours be spent in promoting your personal interest. Be generous in your days of plenty, and be patient in the hour of loss. Adversity is followed by success and rejoicings follow woe. Guard against idleness and sloth, and cling unto that which profiteth mankind, whether young or old, whether high or low. Beware lest ye sow tares of dissension among men or plant thorns of doubt in pure and radiant hearts. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 138) Arise thou to serve the Cause of thy Lord; then give the people the joyful tidings concerning this resplendent Light whose revelation hath been announced by God through His Prophets and Messengers. Admonish everyone moreover to observe prudence as ordained by Him, and in the Name of God advise them, saying: It behoveth every one in this Day of God to dedicate himself to the teaching of the Cause with utmost prudence and steadfastness. Should he discover a pure soil, let him sow the seed of the Word of God, otherwise it would be preferable to observe silence. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 242) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
At 5:26 PM -0500 11/21/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a line somewhere in Aqdas or elsewhere that says after the Recognition one should serve those that believe? Fariborz __ The only thing I am aware of that ties recognition of the Manifestation directly to service is the following on page 33 of the Aqdas - Be not dismayed, O peoples of the world, when the day-star of My beauty is set, and the heaven of My tabernacle is concealed from your eyes. Arise to further My Cause, and to exalt My Word amongst men. We are with you at all times, and shall strengthen you through the power of truth. We are truly almighty. Whoso hath recognized Me will arise and serve Me with such determination that the powers of earth and heaven shall be unable to defeat his purpose. However, note the following from Questions and Answers - 104. In the Tablet to Aba Badi', this holy verse hath been revealed: Verily, We have enjoined on every son to serve his father. Such is the decree which We have set forth in the Book. Regarding service to others, we have these statements - Praise be to God! the mediaeval ages of darkness have passed away and this century of radiance has dawned,--this century wherein the reality of things is becoming evident,--wherein science is penetrating the mysteries of the universe, the oneness of the world of humanity is being established and service to mankind is the paramount motive of all existence. (Abdu'l-Baha, BWF 279) In the Baha'i Cause arts, sciences and all crafts are (counted as) worship. The man who makes a piece of notepaper to the best of his ability, conscientiously, concentrating all his forces on perfecting it, is giving praise to God. Briefly, all effort and exertion put forth by man from the fullness of his heart is worship, if it is prompted by the highest motives and the will to do service to humanity. This is worship: to serve mankind and to minister to the needs of the people. Service is prayer. (Abdu'l-Baha, PT 164-5) For service in love for mankind is unity with God. He who serves has already entered the Kingdom and is seated at the right hand of his Lord. (Abdu'l-Baha, PUP 186) In my opinion, an essential aspect of personal spiritual development for a Baha'i must include exemplifying the Scriptures thru' service to mankind. Don C He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
