Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-06-01 Thread Neil Andersen via CnC-List 
Which I believe is code…

Neil Andersen, W3NEA
Rock Hall, MD 21661
484-354-8800

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 10:33:25 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

For safer storage of lead/acid batteries onboard mine are in leak proof battery 
boxes which are held in place with straps attached to solid support

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 9:48 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Pretty much that. If you don’t mind having wet batteries those are probably 
fine. Having a battery crack open and dump acid in the bilge during a hurricane 
was a stinky situation I do not care to repeat.

Joe

Coquina



From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 6:51 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again



The battery you indicated appears not to be an AGM.  Flooded batteries in 
general are much cheaper than the AGM.  My battery compartment is not easily 
accessible, so having to maintain the water level in the battery,  worries 
about operating it while healed plus the potential danger of spills makes me 
much happier to spend the extra $$$ for AGM batteries.  One less thing to worry 
about.  Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:1811fabb392ad7999131]



On May 30, 2022, at 11:57 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



I have used Dyno batteries without issue.  They cost less than 1/2.  Am I 
missing something?



https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dyno-battery-heavy-duty-m30-marine-batteries/m30hh

Tom Buscaglia

S/V Alera

1990 C 37+/40

Vashon WA

P 206.463.9200

C 305.409.3660





On May 30, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



I highly recommend Lifeline group 31



Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>



From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com<mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again



There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT





--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-06-01 Thread Kevin Wright via CnC-List 
Hi All,
Just to throw another idea out there.
I've just bought a Bluette AC2000p and plan on hooking up my 4 100w solar
panels directly to it. then using a Blue Sea Systems AC Rotary Switch "Off
+ Shore Power + Generator Positions" to wire it to my AC panel.
The Bluetti has a built-in charge controller and inverter. This way I can
keep my house and start banks as is. Maybe not the most inexpensive route
but seems simple enough.
Am I missing anything? Anybody done something similar?
Thanks
Kevin

https://www.bluettipower.ca/products/bluetti-ac200p-2000wh-2000w
https://ca.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=7642=Cj0KCQjwnNyUBhCZARIsAI9AYlEA3QxjkDbzzJz0klNKjTzJErirJGzSOarToU-nisyA2bS-z6-ySKMaAhMdEALw_wcB

S/V Raven
1985 Landfall 43
Midland ON.

>

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-06-01 Thread Matthew via CnC-List 
I’d have to experience a roll-through to be concerned about battery movement on 
my boat.  

 

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2022 10:33 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

 

For safer storage of lead/acid batteries onboard mine are in leak proof battery 
boxes which are held in place with straps attached to solid support

 

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 9:48 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Pretty much that. If you don’t mind having wet batteries those are probably 
fine. Having a battery crack open and dump acid in the bilge during a hurricane 
was a stinky situation I do not care to repeat. 

Joe

Coquina

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 6:51 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

 

The battery you indicated appears not to be an AGM.  Flooded batteries in 
general are much cheaper than the AGM.  My battery compartment is not easily 
accessible, so having to maintain the water level in the battery,  worries 
about operating it while healed plus the potential danger of spills makes me 
much happier to spend the extra $$$ for AGM batteries.  One less thing to worry 
about.  Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

On May 30, 2022, at 11:57 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

I have used Dyno batteries without issue.  They cost less than 1/2.  Am I 
missing something?

 

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dyno-battery-heavy-duty-m30-marine-batteries/m30hh

Tom Buscaglia

S/V Alera 

1990 C 37+/40

Vashon WA

P 206.463.9200

C 305.409.3660

 

 

On May 30, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:



I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

 

Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> 


  _  


From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>  mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again

 

There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again

 

I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457

  

>From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
>110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
>brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  
>Thanks- Dave  

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

-- 

Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-06-01 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
That is as it should be. Long story with the hurricane, but a battery box had 
cracked, I hadn’t got a replacement for it yet, and trying to get upwind and 
upcurrent in a hurricane was not only futile, it was enough of a beating to 
crack the battery and crack the case more. The stinky acid solution was not 
only stinky, it got into a locker with all my spare canned food and ate holes 
in the cans ☹ Note that straps across the top of the BOX is not like straps 
across the battery, it can still move a little.
I swore never again would I have wet batteries!
Joe
Coquina




From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 10:33 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

For safer storage of lead/acid batteries onboard mine are in leak proof battery 
boxes which are held in place with straps attached to solid support

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 9:48 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Pretty much that. If you don’t mind having wet batteries those are probably 
fine. Having a battery crack open and dump acid in the bilge during a hurricane 
was a stinky situation I do not care to repeat.
Joe
Coquina

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-06-01 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List 
For safer storage of lead/acid batteries onboard mine are in leak proof
battery boxes which are held in place with straps attached to solid support

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 9:48 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Pretty much that. If you don’t mind having wet batteries those are
> probably fine. Having a battery crack open and dump acid in the bilge
> during a hurricane was a stinky situation I do not care to repeat.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 31, 2022 6:51 AM
> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list 
> *Cc:* David Knecht 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again
>
>
>
> The battery you indicated appears not to be an AGM.  Flooded batteries in
> general are much cheaper than the AGM.  My battery compartment is not
> easily accessible, so having to maintain the water level in the battery,
>  worries about operating it while healed plus the potential danger of
> spills makes me much happier to spend the extra $$$ for AGM batteries.  One
> less thing to worry about.  Dave
>
>
>
> S/V Aries
>
> 1990 C 34+
>
> New London, CT
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2022, at 11:57 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have used Dyno batteries without issue.  They cost less than 1/2.  Am I
> missing something?
>
>
>
>
> https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dyno-battery-heavy-duty-m30-marine-batteries/m30hh
>
> Tom Buscaglia
>
> S/V Alera
>
> 1990 C 37+/40
>
> Vashon WA
>
> P 206.463.9200
>
> C 305.409.3660
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I highly recommend Lifeline group 31
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
> --
>
> *From:* Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* j...@dellabarba.com 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Batteries again
>
>
>
> There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all
> cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There
> is no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What
> matters **hugely** is the number of cycles that they can endure before
> being trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say
> the least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually
> considered the best AGM maker.
>
> FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your
> local battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines,
> but if they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store
>  
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> Coquina C 35 MK I
>
> Kent Island MD USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list 
> *Cc:* David Knecht 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Batteries again
>
>
>
> I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need
> to replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate
> start and house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have
> large power needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I
> have been reading and researching this and I am unsure of what to
> purchase.  From what I have read, AH is the important number to focus on.
> Last time, I got Lifeline AGM group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3
> different group 27 batteries
>
> Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330
>
> Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432
>
> Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457
>
>
>
> From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal
> with 110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known
> (to me) brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the
> numbers?  Thanks- Dave
>
>
>
> S/V Aries
>
> 1990 C 34+
>
> New London, CT
>
>
> 
>
>
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-06-01 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
On paper the VMAX batteries look very good -actually a lot better than very 
good.
I would be pretty surprised if they can actually do what they claim, but I 
don’t know that they don’t. This brings up the main issue with these batteries, 
many of them get quite erratic reviews. You might get a good one or you might 
not. I would do some research before buying, see what you can find on the 
various forums.

Joe
Coquina

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 10:15 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

I am actually leaning toward the VMAX group 31, which I can buy directly from 
the company.  They are made in the US and Vietnam, appear to have good and 
complete specifications (cycling, design etc.).  I can get the Group 31 with 
135Ah for $349 vs. the Lifeline Group 31 which is 105 Ah for $428 from 
Defender.  It would be great if someone with more expertise looks at their data 
and see if I am missing something.  Dave

https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR31-135-12Volts-135AH-Deep-Cycle-XTREME-AGM-Battery-_p_176.html

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?name=lifeline-agm-deep-cycle-marine-battery-(gpl-31t)=-1|328|2289954|2289956=152242

David Knecht
Rear Commodore
Thames Yacht Club
New London, CT




On May 26, 2022, at 11:11 PM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

Get Outlook for Android

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again

There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.
FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 
Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I
Kent Island MD USA






From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again


I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries
Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330
Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432
Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457


From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-31 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Pretty much that. If you don’t mind having wet batteries those are probably 
fine. Having a battery crack open and dump acid in the bilge during a hurricane 
was a stinky situation I do not care to repeat.
Joe
Coquina

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 6:51 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

The battery you indicated appears not to be an AGM.  Flooded batteries in 
general are much cheaper than the AGM.  My battery compartment is not easily 
accessible, so having to maintain the water level in the battery,  worries 
about operating it while healed plus the potential danger of spills makes me 
much happier to spend the extra $$$ for AGM batteries.  One less thing to worry 
about.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D874CB.19E87F00]


On May 30, 2022, at 11:57 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I have used Dyno batteries without issue.  They cost less than 1/2.  Am I 
missing something?

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dyno-battery-heavy-duty-m30-marine-batteries/m30hh
Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera
1990 C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660



On May 30, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

Get Outlook for Android

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again

There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.
FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 
Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I
Kent Island MD USA






From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again


I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries
Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330
Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432
Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457


From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-28 Thread Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
Have used the Shakespeare solder-less connectors in the past, on previous 
boats, and they do work well.

Dean
C 34
Halifax NS



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-28 Thread Dave S via CnC-List 
I addressed this with a 25a dc:dc charger, works great with my 50a hitachi 
alternator And despite the nominal rating difference it wouldn’t surprise me if 
I was actually charging more quickly and efficiently than before.  I do believe 
that the alternator will see less short term heat rise and may see less 
triggering of its thermal protective circuit.  (Which limits its ability to 
charge a deep cycle bank, well documented on marinehowto.com)  I never 
confirmed this but maybe one day I will,  provided I have absolutely nothing 
better to do.   (Lol) 
The “sacrifice” is that I don’t take full advantage of the 200ah lithium bank’s 
rapid charge potential, but this is academic in my case. 

Dave 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> If you connect an alternator straight to a lithium bank and the BMS opens, 
> you are likely to blow the diodes at best or do a lot of damage with a 
> voltage spike at worst. Besides for that, since lithium batteries can accept 
> a high rate of charge for a long time, they look like a dead short more or 
> less to a small alternator.
> Since the charging profile for lithium is different than any lead battery 
> including the fact all lead batteries should have temperature compensated 
> charging parameters and lithium does not do this, to correctly charge lead 
> batteries and lithium batteries from the same alternator, there is going to 
> have to be a DC-DC charger in there somewhere that uses the correct 
> parameters for the bank it is charging, either lead>lithium or lithium>lead. 
> In my case with a 60 amp alternator on an Atomic 4, I believe my best plan is 
> to charge the start battery and use DC-DC for the lithium bank.
> See 
> https://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16228=1=1651155864
>  
> * the A4 is a special case for charging. The pulley that drives the 
> alternator is small, so the alternator spins slower than on almost any other 
> engine. Max current at low RPMs is hell on alternators, that makes them run 
> hot with less cooling air from the slower turning fan. Even with a 120 amp 
> alternator on the engine and loading up with a hair dryer that sucks 90 amps, 
> I have never seen more than 45-50 amps from any alternator.
>  
> I could mess around with my regulator and set it up for lithium, the temp 
> sensor on the alternator should cause it to back off when very hot, but that 
> still doesn’t solve the BMS issue and I still need to charge the start bank 
> somehow.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina C 35 MK I
> Kent Island MD USA
>  
>  
> From: David Risch via CnC-List 
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 1:46 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: David Risch 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again
>  
> Joe,
>  
> We charge house then, a via “Digital Duo”, the start battery.   That seems to 
> be  the norm DC to DC.  Any reason you are doing it otherwise?
>  
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 11:14 AM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again
>  
> My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
> always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.
> I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit 
> right in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to 
> swap the alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for 
> the house bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is 
> that they are “stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to 
> being dead. Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the 
> SSB wasn’t real happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue 
> with a lithium bank unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.
>  
> Joe
> Coquina
>  
> From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List  
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: j...@dellabarba.com; Korbey Hunt 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again
>  
> I highly recommend Lifeline group 31
>  
> Get Outlook for Android
> From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
> To: 'Stus-List' 
> Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again
>  
> There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
> cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
> no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
> matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
> trashed. The vario

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-28 Thread Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
Yes there is.

If you connect an alternator straight to a lithium bank and the BMS opens, you 
are likely to blow the diodes at best or do a lot of damage with a voltage 
spike at worst. Besides for that, since lithium batteries can accept a high 
rate of charge for a long time, they look like a dead short more or less to a 
small alternator. 

Since the charging profile for lithium is different than any lead battery 
including the fact all lead batteries should have temperature compensated 
charging parameters and lithium does not do this, to correctly charge lead 
batteries and lithium batteries from the same alternator, there is going to 
have to be a DC-DC charger in there somewhere that uses the correct parameters 
for the bank it is charging, either lead>lithium or lithium>lead. In my case 
with a 60 amp alternator on an Atomic 4, I believe my best plan is to charge 
the start battery and use DC-DC for the lithium bank.

See https://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16228 
<https://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16228=1=1651155864>
 =1=1651155864

 

* the A4 is a special case for charging. The pulley that drives the alternator 
is small, so the alternator spins slower than on almost any other engine. Max 
current at low RPMs is hell on alternators, that makes them run hot with less 
cooling air from the slower turning fan. Even with a 120 amp alternator on the 
engine and loading up with a hair dryer that sucks 90 amps, I have never seen 
more than 45-50 amps from any alternator. 

 

I could mess around with my regulator and set it up for lithium, the temp 
sensor on the alternator should cause it to back off when very hot, but that 
still doesn’t solve the BMS issue and I still need to charge the start bank 
somehow.

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

From: David Risch via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 1:46 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: David Risch 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

 

Joe,

 

We charge house then, a via “Digital Duo”, the start battery.   That seems to 
be  the norm DC to DC.  Any reason you are doing it otherwise?

 

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 11:14 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

 

My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.

I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.

 

Joe

Coquina

 

From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> ; Korbey Hunt 
mailto:kampf2...@hotmail.com> >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

 

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

 

Get Outlook for Android 
<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FAAb9ysg=05%7C01%7C%7Ce6db60abfa6447c5e26208da3ff37fd5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637892612292527463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=LNio5EVZQmyWD8G8Qg%2B8MAClJ8dzNAjh5gYLQM6luMU%3D=0>
 

  _  

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>  mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again 

 

There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker. 

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week a

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-27 Thread David Risch via CnC-List 
Joe,

We charge house then, a via “Digital Duo”, the start battery.   That seems to 
be  the norm DC to DC.  Any reason you are doing it otherwise?

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 11:14 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.
I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.

Joe
Coquina

From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com<mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>; Korbey Hunt 
mailto:kampf2...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

Get Outlook for 
Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FAAb9ysg=05%7C01%7C%7Ce6db60abfa6447c5e26208da3ff37fd5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637892612292527463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=LNio5EVZQmyWD8G8Qg%2B8MAClJ8dzNAjh5gYLQM6luMU%3D=0>

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com<mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again


There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D871D0.1BC23BC0]

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-27 Thread Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
Yes.  I plan to make my house bank lithium next fall.  It will isolated and 
solar charged.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 9:13:37 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again


My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.

I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.



Joe

Coquina



From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com; Korbey Hunt 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again



I highly recommend Lifeline group 31



Get Outlook for 
Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FAAb9ysg=05%7C01%7C%7Ce63f0ec5a34f4cb5340108da3ff37f42%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637892612291321817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=7lshhk62oICYrXvNBqBRIfW5iBhnUDgpuz%2FlKVGYlEg%3D=0>



From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com<mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again



There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store ??

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



>From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
>110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
>brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  
>Thanks- Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D871BA.CC1EDCA0]

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

2022-05-27 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.
I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.

Joe
Coquina

From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com; Korbey Hunt 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

Get Outlook for Android

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again


There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D871BA.CC1EDCA0]