Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:29:42 +, Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giorgos Keramidas wrote: * Having five gazillion posts that say me too, is not exactly a productive answer to a problem. Alas, this is often what you get when you gather hundreds of _very_ inexperienced people and you hand them a web interface to freely post short, often unintelligible snippets that are more suitable for Twitter than a FAQ page. There's a Thanks button feature in vBulletin that can be enabled to help catch the 'me too' type postings. Heh, yes. It may take a while to catch on, but it's nice to have it :D I've been posting to forums with the mozex Firefox extension and GNU Emacs for more than a couple of years now. Here's how a typical ``post to a forum'' session looks like for me now: http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2961070181/ Oh, wow. That's perfect. Or it would be if it was compatible with firefox-3.0.4 ... It is. I'm using it with Firefox 3.0.4, after installing the plugin from this page: http://mozex.mozdev.org/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Giorgos Keramidas wrote: * Having five gazillion posts that say me too, is not exactly a productive answer to a problem. Alas, this is often what you get when you gather hundreds of _very_ inexperienced people and you hand them a web interface to freely post short, often unintelligible snippets that are more suitable for Twitter than a FAQ page. There's a Thanks button feature in vBulletin that can be enabled to help catch the 'me too' type postings. I've been posting to forums with the mozex Firefox extension and GNU Emacs for more than a couple of years now. Here's how a typical ``post to a forum'' session looks like for me now: http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2961070181/ Oh, wow. That's perfect. Or it would be if it was compatible with firefox-3.0.4 ... Well, yes, but Its All Text does the same trick for text boxes and it is compatible. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125 Wouldn't be without it! atb Glyn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
FreeBSD? i don't think so. While I can see the point you are trying to make, and it's a valid concern, I don't fully agree. What you are essentially hinting at is that having a forum will attract less experienced users. I don't think less experienced people are, for some reason, 'idiots', but it seems plausible enough that having a there are difference between less experienced and idiots. the latter are less experienced and WANT TO keep it that way. that's the difference. _large_ number of inexperienced people may result in a significantly lower signal/noise ratio. I can definitely agree to that. with 100:1 signal/noise ratio experienced people will start to leave the community. or sooner. today we have at least 10:1 The web interface and ``editing in tiny boxes'' problem may be slightly please note that webforums will attract only one kind of people. those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list they will not become experienced unix users ever. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
I have the perfect solution for you since you know more than 80 - 90 percent of the subscribers to this list. Why not create you own operating system and then pick and choose who could use it. All of the source you need is freely available. because it will take too much time. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
So Rolls-Royce should start to mass-produce cars for everyone? it won't be Rolls-Royce anymore. This is nonsense: better start charging money for FreeBSD then. FreeBSD will not turn bad (or Linux) whenever more users are using it. if it would be kept high quality i would be able to pay for it, unless the price will be horrendous. but it would not keep high quality - developers will start to get as much users and implement strange but trendy features just to increase income. This thought is totally against the Open Source vision: software for anyone. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
I don't want to fan the flames, but isn't that exactly what Wojciech is suggesting? That Linux went wrong when it began to cater too much to the perceived need to give former Windows users a user-friendly system? exactly. Anyway, I suspect that this discussion more properly belongs on the advocacy mailing list. The OP's question probably should have been is it? it's not advocacy. it's a warning. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
have). while there may be some benefit to freebsd becoming 'popular', it would it is already popular within experienced users. number one or two. it's just enough. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Hi, there are difference between less experienced and idiots. the latter are less experienced and WANT TO keep it that way. Wojciech - I appreciate the UNIX knowledge that you have but continuing this discussion in this manner seems pointless. Your points are exagerrated to say the least. I am very happy that FBSD now has forums for users. No matter what you say not only less experience people use them. Not everyone loves email. Period. And this condesceding way of talking about possible FBSD users is what I am becoming sick of. I had the luck to be introduced to FBSD by a member of this list. He did so much to help me learn that I am now a happy user. You don't have to help people but appreciate that there are now more channels of communications than mailing lists. Online forums is just one example. Yours, -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Wojciech - I appreciate the UNIX knowledge that you have but continuing this discussion in this manner seems pointless. Your points are exagerrated to say the least. exactly the same i heard years ago on NetBSD list, and more years ago on linux list. time showed that i was right. I am very happy that FBSD now has forums for users. it already had for years. just required to turn on brain for a minute or less to send subscription mail ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:27:08 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: _large_ number of inexperienced people may result in a significantly lower signal/noise ratio. I can definitely agree to that. with 100:1 signal/noise ratio experienced people will start to leave the community. or sooner. today we have at least 10:1 Let's not be too pessimistic, shall we? :D The web interface and ``editing in tiny boxes'' problem may be slightly please note that webforums will attract only one kind of people. those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list they will not become experienced unix users ever. We can help as much as we can, by subscribing and trying to keep the S:N ratio high, or we can start whining forever about how everyone _else_ should spend their own time. I think the later is not a good idea. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Hi, it already had for years. just required to turn on brain for a minute or less to send subscription mail The fact that you love to communicate via email does not mean that everyone shoud/must/does. And you shouldn't call people idiots only because they have different preference than you. Regards, -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www/xpi-mozex (was Re: Official FreeBSD Forums)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Giorgos Keramidas wrote: | On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:29:42 +, Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Oh, wow. That's perfect. Or it would be if it was compatible with | firefox-3.0.4 ... | | It is. I'm using it with Firefox 3.0.4, after installing the plugin | from this page: | | http://mozex.mozdev.org/ | Looks like the www/xpi-mozex port is a bit out of date. 1.9.5 in ports versus 1.9.9 available on-line. Unless someone beats me to it, I'll submit an update to the maintainer this evening. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. Flat 3 ~ 7 Priory Courtyard PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate ~ Kent, CT11 9PW, UK -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREDAAYFAkkhPiIACgkQ3jDkPpsZ+Va98wCgik+ojzwwv6JqYh8ysyssL9Q9 SsYAn0y4FcChybrhBJprLrDTOP/zhIcC =36mo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
The fact that you love to communicate via email does not mean that everyone shoud/must/does. And you shouldn't call people idiots only because they have different preference than you. it's not preference. it's self-limiting to just single interface for everything - WWW. today common trend. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
today we have at least 10:1 Let's not be too pessimistic, shall we? :D i'm realistic. those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list they will not become experienced unix users ever. We can help as much as we can, by subscribing and trying to keep the S:N ratio high, or we can start whining forever about how everyone _else_ should spend their own time. I think the later is not a good idea. there is not much place to help ALREADY, as there are maybe 2-3 on-topic questions a day. and i do answer and help if i can. but soon it will be much worse. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:01:03 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: those who are not just less experienced but so brainless that they can't even sent a subscribing mail to mailing list they will not become experienced unix users ever. We can help as much as we can, by subscribing and trying to keep the S:N ratio high, or we can start whining forever about how everyone _else_ should spend their own time. I think the later is not a good idea. there is not much place to help ALREADY, as there are maybe 2-3 on-topic questions a day. and i do answer and help if i can. but soon it will be much worse. I beg to differ. I don't like playing the `old fart' card, but I've been a subscriber to questions for a decade or so. I haven't noticed any significant reduction in the quality of traffic. It still rocks as much as it did back in 1998 when I started lurking around here :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
questions a day. and i do answer and help if i can. but soon it will be much worse. I beg to differ. I don't like playing the `old fart' card, but I've been a subscriber to questions for a decade or so. I haven't noticed any significant reduction in the quality of traffic. It still rocks as much as it did back in 1998 when I started lurking around here :) well there is a difference maybe this webforum could help by redirecting some kind of folks to it, making mailing list less noisy. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
maybe this webforum could help by redirecting some kind of folks to it, making mailing list less noisy. If we're talking about signal to noise ratio, this thread is getting pretty high on the noise end of the spectrum... -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:50:40 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting NO IT IS NOT! Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) -- minix doesn't work well under high load. it's not even designed to do this. maybe it will change, and full DMA ide drivers. will be interesting. it's really well coded. I have the perfect solution for you since you know more than 80 - 90 percent of the subscribers to this list. Why not create you own operating system and then pick and choose who could use it. All of the source you need is freely available. Robert ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 01:06:34AM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend. Could you please stop trolling? You're not contributing to anything here. no - because i'm not trolling. simply ignore me if you don't understand what i write Unfortunately, the only one who doesn't understand would not be any of the other posters. The community is much more trustworthy than you give it credit. The community got us a valuable resource and will continue to do so if people who might take an interest aren't too put off by perpetual negative spinners. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:58:39 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. I don't like forums for the fact that I have to wade thro the web to get there, but I have no issues with these for FreeBSD as the announcement says they are a complement to our fine mailing lists. I prefer the mail to the forums ans ince mail is still there, I am happy as I still have my choice. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards! --from a /. post ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sunday 16 November 2008 11:04:28 am Brad Davis wrote: The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. Thank you! For problem-solving and discussion my personal preference is still for mailing lists, but given this announcement I decided to check out the forums. I am impressed by the layout and design and the thought that has obviously gone into setting up the categories, etc. I think the Howto/FAQ section alone will be a tremendous resource even for those of us who generally stick to mailing lists. It's only been online for a day and I've already learned something by scanning the rapidly growing number of posts in that section. The forums also provide a valuable means for those of us who don't frequently contribute code to support the community in other ways. Timely, helpful answers to questions of all levels combined with moderation and involvement from a large community of users will make the site a valuable, lasting resource for the projet. I hope to contribute what I can and encourage others to do the same. Regards, John Nielsen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: www/xpi-mozex (was Re: Official FreeBSD Forums)
Matthew Seaman wrote: Looks like the www/xpi-mozex port is a bit out of date. 1.9.5 in ports versus 1.9.9 available on-line. Unless someone beats me to it, I'll submit an update to the maintainer this evening. ports/128945 Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Brad Davis wrote: You can register and start using our new service here: http://forums.FreeBSD.org How about setting up a bidirectional Forum - Mailing List bridge? Perhaps to freebsd-questions@ or (not as good) to a special new list, say, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ideally, freebsd-questions@ could be bidirectionally mirrored to the forums, so we won't lose all those helpful people from freebsd-questions@ to the forums! Another advantage is that each of us subscribers could still automatically get a copy of posts, so we can archive them locally, as we do now with the mailing lists. Please give it a thought. Thanks, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
cpghost wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Brad Davis wrote: You can register and start using our new service here: http://forums.FreeBSD.org How about setting up a bidirectional Forum - Mailing List bridge? Perhaps to freebsd-questions@ or (not as good) to a special new list, say, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ideally, freebsd-questions@ could be bidirectionally mirrored to the forums, so we won't lose all those helpful people from freebsd-questions@ to the forums! Another advantage is that each of us subscribers could still automatically get a copy of posts, so we can archive them locally, as we do now with the mailing lists. Please give it a thought. Thanks, -cpghost. I think this would likely cause a riot, at least with freebsd-questions. I think it is a better idea to leave them separate. A few things like resolving categories alone could end up being a problem. Do you not allow people to start new threads? If you do, where do they end up on the forum? Steve signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 04:23:55PM -0600, Steven Susbauer wrote: cpghost wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Brad Davis wrote: You can register and start using our new service here: http://forums.FreeBSD.org How about setting up a bidirectional Forum - Mailing List bridge? Perhaps to freebsd-questions@ or (not as good) to a special new list, say, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ideally, freebsd-questions@ could be bidirectionally mirrored to the forums, so we won't lose all those helpful people from freebsd-questions@ to the forums! Another advantage is that each of us subscribers could still automatically get a copy of posts, so we can archive them locally, as we do now with the mailing lists. Please give it a thought. Thanks, -cpghost. I think this would likely cause a riot, at least with freebsd-questions. I think it is a better idea to leave them separate. A few things like resolving categories alone could end up being a problem. Do you not allow people to start new threads? If you do, where do they end up on the forum? Steve Hmmm... yes, on second thought not such a bright idea. But perhaps a bridge to an archiving-only mailing list (freebsd-forums@) similar to freebsd-cvs@ for forum posts could be set up anyway? IMHO there should be a way to archive forum posts in some way, and make them available in near real-time to users whose workflow is much more geared towards mailing lists. One might miss an interesting forum thread, because not everyone looks regularly there, but missing a catchy subject line in an MUA from the forums may be more difficult. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:38:53PM +0100, cpghost wrote: IMHO there should be a way to archive forum posts in some way, and make them available in near real-time to users whose workflow is much more geared towards mailing lists. One might miss an interesting forum thread, because not everyone looks regularly there, but missing a catchy subject line in an MUA from the forums may be more difficult. I second that. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Unfortunately, the only one who doesn't understand would not be any of the other posters. The community is much more trustworthy than you give it credit. The community got us a valuable resource and will continue to do so if people who might take an interest aren't too put off by perpetual negative spinners. we'll see within 2 yaers. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Official FreeBSD Forums
Dear FreeBSD users, The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. You can register and start using our new service here: http://forums.FreeBSD.org The structure of the forum is still in a late beta stage, so if you have ideas, suggestions for improvements or bug reports, send them to: forum-moderators at FreeBSD dot org. Please also have a look at our rules before you create your first thread or post your first message. You can find our official list of forum rules here: http://forums.freebsd.org/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules Also, FreeBSD developers (people with commit access to our CVS/SVN trees) can be distinguished by having an '@' character at the end of their username. It is our hope that both users and developers will find this new service useful. Please help spread the word. Sincerely, The FreeBSD Forums Admin Team ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Great, very useful! Thanks a lot! gr Arno On 16 nov 2008, at 17:04, Brad Davis wrote: Dear FreeBSD users, The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. You can register and start using our new service here: http://forums.FreeBSD.org The structure of the forum is still in a late beta stage, so if you have ideas, suggestions for improvements or bug reports, send them to: forum-moderators at FreeBSD dot org. Please also have a look at our rules before you create your first thread or post your first message. You can find our official list of forum rules here: http://forums.freebsd.org/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules Also, FreeBSD developers (people with commit access to our CVS/SVN trees) can be distinguished by having an '@' character at the end of their username. It is our hope that both users and developers will find this new service useful. Please help spread the word. Sincerely, The FreeBSD Forums Admin Team ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. this will add lots of i...ts that are unable to configure mail program and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Wojciech Puchar wrote: this will add lots of i...ts that are unable to configure mail program and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. There's no law or even a policy against i...ts using FreeBSD. If all people were specialists in FreeBSD, then no forum (or mailing lists) would be needed, right? Peter Forum = Good thing! -- http://www.boosten.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. There's no law or even a policy against i...ts using FreeBSD. OF COURSE. but how usable such forum be for specialists (i mean just someone bit advanced)? will it be separate forum or integrated with THIS mailinglist? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 07:58:39PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. this will add lots of i...ts that are unable to configure mail program and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. I've tried both web forums and email lists. I have a strong preference for email lists as a means of getting answers to questions. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Wojciech Puchar wrote: and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. There's no law or even a policy against i...ts using FreeBSD. OF COURSE. but how usable such forum be for specialists (i mean just someone bit advanced)? will it be separate forum or integrated with THIS mailinglist? It's independent of the mailing lists -- there's a feed of the News articles that appear here: http://www.freebsd.org/news/newsflash.html plus Security Advisories and (I think) Errata notices from the RSS channels on the web site, but that's about it. So far. Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting complete beginners by what ever means work, since today's Noob is potentially tomorrow's elite Kernel programmer. If the FreeBSD project can make itself accessible through all of the sort of web-based tools now generally popular, so much the better for the future of the project. Not that I expect the forums to consist entirely of questions on the level of 'Which one is the any key?' So far the standard of questions and answers appears to be at least on a par with the general traffic on this list. Early days yet but the auguries are good. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
It's independent of the mailing lists -- there's a feed of the News articles that's fine - just i've checked it. i was scared it will be webinterface to this mailing list. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting NO IT IS NOT! complete beginners by what ever means work, since today's Noob is potentially tomorrow's elite Kernel programmer. At first he must be programmer at all. you can learn programming in any OS, even that bad as windoze. if he/she is really smart then he/she will quickly search for some real OS after learning just basics of programming. and THEN try FreeBSD or other unix. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On 11/17/08, FBSD UG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great, very useful! Thanks a lot! gr Arno There was a bsdforums.org before, and closed down, and now http://daemonforums.org, I don't see the point of having an official forum from freebsd. If for announcement purpose, a dynamic webpage should do just fine. Totally my own idea On 16 nov 2008, at 17:04, Brad Davis wrote: Dear FreeBSD users, The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. You can register and start using our new service here: http://forums.FreeBSD.org http://forums.freebsd.org/ The structure of the forum is still in a late beta stage, so if you have ideas, suggestions for improvements or bug reports, send them to: forum-moderators at FreeBSD dot org. Please also have a look at our rules before you create your first thread or post your first message. You can find our official list of forum rules here: http://forums.freebsd.org/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules Also, FreeBSD developers (people with commit access to our CVS/SVN trees) can be distinguished by having an '@' character at the end of their username. It is our hope that both users and developers will find this new service useful. Please help spread the word. Sincerely, The FreeBSD Forums Admin Team ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --l_. (l-l3n ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:56:28 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting NO IT IS NOT! Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Bruce Cran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:56:28 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting NO IT IS NOT! Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) I cannot begin to express how disappointed I am that a potential user's question turned into a flamewar. -- Glen Barber If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done. --Scott Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Glen Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Bruce Cran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:56:28 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting NO IT IS NOT! Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) I cannot begin to express how disappointed I am that a potential user's question turned into a flamewar. Well.. Wasn't really a 'question', but you get my point. -- Glen Barber If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done. --Scott Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Having a larger user-base is definitely a good thing. That means attracting NO IT IS NOT! Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) -- minix doesn't work well under high load. it's not even designed to do this. maybe it will change, and full DMA ide drivers. will be interesting. it's really well coded. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) I cannot begin to express how disappointed I am that a potential user's question turned into a flamewar. actually it's NOT a flamewar. it's my WARNING to all current FreeBSD community about the effect of doing such nonsense like trying to get as much users as possible. if You ignore this, after 2-3 years read my posts again. just to see Oh well, he was right, but it's too late. Learn from other's mistakes (like linux,netbsd), instead of repeating and repeating the same mistake again. I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 7:02 PM, Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...snip...] I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend. Could you please stop trolling? You're not contributing to anything here. -- Glen Barber If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done. --Scott Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend. Could you please stop trolling? You're not contributing to anything here. no - because i'm not trolling. simply ignore me if you don't understand what i write ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Indeed you are trolling Considering that your way of thinking is actually a flame. Also I never knew how to program before I even started to use *nix, but once I did I began to learn how to code. Also I know what your saying your in the dark ages it seems where, elites rule No Offense ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
No Offense indeed it is offense. my opinion is different than yours so i have to shut up. that's what you said/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On 17 nov 2008, at 01:02, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Well, it sounds like Minix may be gaining a new user soon then ;) I cannot begin to express how disappointed I am that a potential user's question turned into a flamewar. actually it's NOT a flamewar. it's my WARNING to all current FreeBSD community about the effect of doing such nonsense like trying to get as much users as possible. if You ignore this, after 2-3 years read my posts again. just to see Oh well, he was right, but it's too late. Learn from other's mistakes (like linux,netbsd), instead of repeating and repeating the same mistake again. why not learn from where it went wrong and do it better? If FreeBSD becomes popular we'll have to deal with it sooner or later I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
why not learn from where it went wrong and do it better? what better exactly? sounds interesting. please add some details, because for now i see that it going not better not worse but exactly the same way as my examples. If FreeBSD becomes popular we'll have to deal with it sooner or later it IS already popular, it's IMHO second most popular of unices (linux being the first). With professionals (i hate that word, please replace with better :) who need really high performance servers, it have the first place. In the same time, it's like Rolls-Royce of operating system. So Rolls-Royce should start to mass-produce cars for everyone? it won't be Rolls-Royce anymore. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:20:47 +0100 FBSD UG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why not learn from where it went wrong and do it better? If FreeBSD becomes popular we'll have to deal with it sooner or later this is possibly good advice, but i think that wojciech makes a valid warning and, imho, i think it is inappropriate to suggest he is trolling simply because he is repeating a his point (as some others have). while there may be some benefit to freebsd becoming 'popular', it would be unfortunate if it did so in the way windoze or even certain linuxes have become 'popular'. imho, it is better to stay small offering quality and bring others up to a standard, rather that walking down the windoze-wannabe lane. we tried various linuxes, openbsd, netbsd and found them all good in many respects (we tried windoze too for that matter and even liked win95 and win98 a decade ago), but we settled on freebsd for both our server and our desktop (my son uses ubuntu because of certain graphic and hardware advantages) because we found it cleaner and simpler. (so i don't get to do some things that i could on say kubuntu, i still prefer freebsd. i don't use a desktop for instance, i use dwm instead.) personally, while having 'goodies' may be nice, maintaining the integrity of an os (and i'm not talking about coding), seems to me to be more important. and of course one of the best things about freebsd is the tone of this list. people here are both helpful and honest, the 2 do not have to be mutually exclusive. i see no reason why freebsd needs to imitate something it doesn't want to be just to offer goodies and grab more followers. -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
* FBSD UG [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-17 01:20:47 +0100]: On 17 nov 2008, at 01:02, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Learn from other's mistakes (like linux,netbsd), instead of repeating and repeating the same mistake again. why not learn from where it went wrong and do it better? If FreeBSD becomes popular we'll have to deal with it sooner or later I don't want to fan the flames, but isn't that exactly what Wojciech is suggesting? That Linux went wrong when it began to cater too much to the perceived need to give former Windows users a user-friendly system? Anyway, I suspect that this discussion more properly belongs on the advocacy mailing list. The OP's question probably should have been directed there in the first place. Let's drop it here, and get back to answering the kind of howto questions where this list excels. -- Charlie ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Charlie Kester [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: * FBSD UG [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-17 01:20:47 +0100]: On 17 nov 2008, at 01:02, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Learn from other's mistakes (like linux,netbsd), instead of repeating and repeating the same mistake again. why not learn from where it went wrong and do it better? If FreeBSD becomes popular we'll have to deal with it sooner or later I don't want to fan the flames, but isn't that exactly what Wojciech is suggesting? That Linux went wrong when it began to cater too much to the perceived need to give former Windows users a user-friendly system? Anyway, I suspect that this discussion more properly belongs on the advocacy mailing list. The OP's question probably should have been directed there in the first place. Let's drop it here, and get back to answering the kind of howto questions where this list excels. -- Charlie ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] yes this should have gone to the advocacy mailing list really, and from what I got from what Wojciech said is that he thinks that FreeBSD will come with a gui installed by default. I don't think that's what most of us are thinking when we are thinking of new users. We are thinking of users that actually know or want to control their complete system. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Wojciech Puchar wrote: The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. this will add lots of i...ts that are unable to configure mail program and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] i...ts Is that, like, what I'm supposed to type if I'm afraid of the word idiots? What should I type if I don't want to type the word fuck? Is there a news letter I can subscribe to that will tell me? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Wojciech Puchar wrote: In the same time, it's like Rolls-Royce of operating system. So Rolls-Royce should start to mass-produce cars for everyone? it won't be Rolls-Royce anymore. This is nonsense: better start charging money for FreeBSD then. FreeBSD will not turn bad (or Linux) whenever more users are using it. This thought is totally against the Open Source vision: software for anyone. From another email: Wojciech Puchar wrote: I strongly recommend all of You to stop this bad trend. Could you please stop trolling? You're not contributing to anything here. no - because i'm not trolling. simply ignore me if you don't understand what i write You could follow your own advice and not read the forum at all. Peter -- http://www.boosten.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:58:39 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The FreeBSD project is finally, after much work, pleased to announce the availability of an official FreeBSD web based discussion forum. It is our hope that this forum will serve as a public support channel for FreeBSD users around the world and as a complement to our fine mailing lists. this will add lots of i...ts that are unable to configure mail program and subscribe. is having as much users as possible really good for FreeBSD? i don't think so. While I can see the point you are trying to make, and it's a valid concern, I don't fully agree. What you are essentially hinting at is that having a forum will attract less experienced users. I don't think less experienced people are, for some reason, 'idiots', but it seems plausible enough that having a _large_ number of inexperienced people may result in a significantly lower signal/noise ratio. I can definitely agree to that. Two of my usual gripes with forums and their software are: * Having five gazillion posts that say me too, is not exactly a productive answer to a problem. Alas, this is often what you get when you gather hundreds of _very_ inexperienced people and you hand them a web interface to freely post short, often unintelligible snippets that are more suitable for Twitter than a FAQ page. * I hate crappy, slow, bug-ridden web interfaces. The word 'hate' is probably not strong enough to describe some of the sentiments that pop up when I have to type in tiny web-browser textboxes, only to find that hitting 'Back' throws away several minutes of editing. There *are* ways to amend some of these problems though, so even though I am not a great fan of forums and their software, I subscribed to the new forum and I will keep an eye for interesting stuff. The obvious solution to the ``too many newbies don't necessarily make a good knowledge base by their sheer number'' problem is to have _more_ of the experienced people subscribe to the forum. If you feel you are one of the people who can contribute useful, to the point, correct(TM) and complete answers to the forum, then you know what to do :-) The web interface and ``editing in tiny boxes'' problem may be slightly less irky or less nerve-wrecking for the ``old school'' people when an extension to Firefox is used to spawn an external editor. I do that all the time, and trust me it makes posting to forums a *lot* less painful for someone who likes writing in a _real_ text editor. I've been posting to forums with the mozex Firefox extension and GNU Emacs for more than a couple of years now. Here's how a typical ``post to a forum'' session looks like for me now: http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2961070181/ Having an Emacs instance running in ``server-mode'' means that I can also keep around a bunch of my previous posts, and go back to them, save them on disk, email them to myself, etc. This has helped me feel more at ease when posting to forums, and I heartily recommend it to anyone who feels web interfaces are giving them a lot of grief. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Official FreeBSD Forums
Giorgos Keramidas wrote: * Having five gazillion posts that say me too, is not exactly a productive answer to a problem. Alas, this is often what you get when you gather hundreds of _very_ inexperienced people and you hand them a web interface to freely post short, often unintelligible snippets that are more suitable for Twitter than a FAQ page. There's a Thanks button feature in vBulletin that can be enabled to help catch the 'me too' type postings. I've been posting to forums with the mozex Firefox extension and GNU Emacs for more than a couple of years now. Here's how a typical ``post to a forum'' session looks like for me now: http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2961070181/ Oh, wow. That's perfect. Or it would be if it was compatible with firefox-3.0.4 ... Cheers Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
