Re: Release schedules
Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: Thank you Jonathan - I cannot give much to FBSD as I am not a programmer either but - again - if I can be of any use communication-wise, I am happy to join the community and serve. Actually, you could give a lot to the project. I could think of a few things and I'm sure others could think of more 1) Testing -STABLE or -CURRENT and submitting bugs reports 2) Writing or translating docs 3) http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/contributing/index.html section 1.1 -- Eitan Adler GNU Key fingerptrint: 2E13 BC16 5F54 0FBD 62ED 42B6 B65F 24AB E9C2 CCD1 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Sat 2008-12-13 19:05:35 UTC+, Matthew Seaman (m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk) wrote: Ports aren't actually frozen at the moment. Neither are they completely open for any sort of updates. Instead they're in a 'slush' -- no sweeping changes permitted, no major changes to the infrastructure (ie. bsd.ports.mk, that sort of thing). How does one determine the state (frozen/slush/unfrozen/other?) of the Ports tree? Is the state kept in the tree itself? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
andrew clarke wrote: On Sat 2008-12-13 19:05:35 UTC+, Matthew Seaman (m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk) wrote: Ports aren't actually frozen at the moment. Neither are they completely open for any sort of updates. Instead they're in a 'slush' -- no sweeping changes permitted, no major changes to the infrastructure (ie. bsd.ports.mk, that sort of thing). How does one determine the state (frozen/slush/unfrozen/other?) of the Ports tree? Is the state kept in the tree itself? No -- you follow the announcements from r...@... and port...@... on the appropriate mailing lists, and you consult the web page at http://www.freebsd.org/releng/index.html Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Release schedules
On Friday 12 December 2008 19:26, Sean Cavanaugh wrote: -- From: Joe S js.li...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:20 PM To: Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Jonathan McKeown jonathan+freebsd-questi...@hst.org.za Subject: Re: Release schedules On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? Give me a break. The OpenBSD team of volunteers makes a new release every six months, with target release dates in May and November. I can't recall a slip of even one day. I know, this isn't OpenBSD, but it proves that a regular release schedule is indeed possible. also remember that 6.4 was being worked on at the same time. there's only a finite number of people to spread across both projects. finalization of 7.1 should come faster as 6.4 has been released According to http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.1R/schedule.html , the ports tree was frozen on 8 September, tagged on 22 September and unfrozen. (I see elsewhere in this thread someone saying it's still frozen - I'm not sure which statement is correct). 7.1-RELEASE should have been done a couple of weeks later - early in October for announcement on 13 October. We are now looking at a release in January. That's not a few days or even a few weeks late - it's almost four months late; and 7.1-RELEASE will ship with a ports tree that's almost 5 months out of date. Not only that - it's shipping mere weeks before the end-of-life for 7.0-RELEASE (currently 28 Feb 2009). I have been watching the web page and freebsd-stable. There has been no obvious indication of the reason for the delays or the expected duration. (For earlier releases, there was a todo page linked from the release webpage which listed areas needing more work and areas needing testing). The -RC1 release announcement finally acknowledged that there had been a number of major problems, not all of which have been fully addressed yet. As a community, we should be ashamed of this: ``volunteer effort'' just isn't a good enough excuse - and those of us who haven't volunteered need to find out how we can help get things back on track for the next release. When I first raised this, I asked if there was anything I could do to help the release engineering team with communication. Zbigniew Szalbot made a similar offer. I really think that once 7.1 is out, we (collectively) need to have a long hard look at the release process and make sure this doesn't happen again (and again and again and again - it's not the first time that I've scheduled work around release dates and ended up being embarrassed or having to do jobs twice, with a pre-release and then again when the release arrives.) Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
Hello, As a community, we should be ashamed of this: ``volunteer effort'' just isn't a good enough excuse - and those of us who haven't volunteered need to find out how we can help get things back on track for the next release. When I first raised this, I asked if there was anything I could do to help the release engineering team with communication. Zbigniew Szalbot made a similar offer. Thank you Jonathan - I cannot give much to FBSD as I am not a programmer either but - again - if I can be of any use communication-wise, I am happy to join the community and serve. Best regards, -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.fairtrade.net.pl www.slowo.pl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
Jerry wrote: My biggest gripe with the entire update schedule is that the ports freeze has been frozen longer than my wife. Maybe having two separate ports, one for the current version and one for the RC? version might work better. I have never fully understood why the ports had to be frozen anyway. Why can there not be two separate entities, the current version and the beta one? Ports aren't actually frozen at the moment. Neither are they completely open for any sort of updates. Instead they're in a 'slush' -- no sweeping changes permitted, no major changes to the infrastructure (ie. bsd.ports.mk, that sort of thing). This allows the RELEASE_7_1_0 tag to be slid forward in the event of critical or security updates to specific ports. For instance, see: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/databases/phpmyadmin/Makefile?only_with_tag=RELEASE_7_1_0 That update was committed two days ago, and as it's a security update it has been tagged as RELEASE_7_1_0, so will in principle appear on the 7.1-isos. (I can't remember if phpmyadmin actually is one of the packages available on the install CDs or not. Given its popularity, quite possibly.) Docs are in a similar 'slush' state, but in this case it's primarily to allow the various translation teams to synch the various language versions to the original language the docco was written in (almost always English, but not entirely) Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Release schedules
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Zbigniew Szalbot zszal...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, As a community, we should be ashamed of this: ``volunteer effort'' just isn't a good enough excuse - and those of us who haven't volunteered need to find out how we can help get things back on track for the next release. When I first raised this, I asked if there was anything I could do to help the release engineering team with communication. Zbigniew Szalbot made a similar offer. Thank you Jonathan - I cannot give much to FBSD as I am not a programmer either but - again - if I can be of any use communication-wise, I am happy to join the community and serve. I second that, and would be happy to participate as well. -- Glen Barber If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done. --Scott Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? Give me a break. The OpenBSD team of volunteers makes a new release every six months, with target release dates in May and November. I can't recall a slip of even one day. I know, this isn't OpenBSD, but it proves that a regular release schedule is indeed possible. The FreeBSD project continues to grow. I get that. Perhaps some parts of the FreeBSD project are not as organized as they used to be, or perhaps those planning what goes into each release are biting off more than they can chew. So what does it take to make regular releases a goal. Maybe try doing a little less per release? I haven't even looked at the list of what's changed between 7.0 and 7.1. I miss the old FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
-- From: Joe S js.li...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:20 PM To: Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Jonathan McKeown jonathan+freebsd-questi...@hst.org.za Subject: Re: Release schedules On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? Give me a break. The OpenBSD team of volunteers makes a new release every six months, with target release dates in May and November. I can't recall a slip of even one day. I know, this isn't OpenBSD, but it proves that a regular release schedule is indeed possible. also remember that 6.4 was being worked on at the same time. there's only a finite number of people to spread across both projects. finalization of 7.1 should come faster as 6.4 has been released ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
Joe S writes: What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? When it's ready used to be the scheduling principle. Then came 5.0 debacle: behind schedule big-time (and arguably not ready when it went out the door). I remember discussion afterwards, where there seemed to be agreement there ought to be a more-or-less regular schedule of major releases every two years (plus or minus) with minor releases every few months. Looking at www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html, that's getting stretched. The RC-1 announcement for 7.1, originally scheduled for early September, is now listed as last week ... and didn't actually happen. (Unless I missed the memo.) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com wrote: When it's ready used to be the scheduling principle. Then came 5.0 debacle: behind schedule big-time (and arguably not ready when it went out the door). I remember discussion afterwards, where there seemed to be agreement there ought to be a more-or-less regular schedule of major releases every two years (plus or minus) with minor releases every few months. Looking at www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html, that's getting stretched. The RC-1 announcement for 7.1, originally scheduled for early September, is now listed as last week ... and didn't actually happen. (Unless I missed the memo.) The RC-1 announcement for 7.1 did come out last week (check the stable@ archives). I personally would rather wait for quality than pushed quantity. -- Glen Barber If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done. --Scott Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com wrote: When it's ready used to be the scheduling principle. Then came 5.0 debacle: behind schedule big-time (and arguably not ready when it went out the door). I remember discussion afterwards, where there seemed to be agreement there ought to be a more-or-less regular schedule of major releases every two years (plus or minus) with minor releases every few months. Looking at www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html, that's getting stretched. The RC-1 announcement for 7.1, originally scheduled for early September, is now listed as last week ... and didn't actually happen. (Unless I missed the memo.) The RC-1 announcement for 7.1 did come out last week (check the stable@ archives). I personally would rather wait for quality than pushed quantity. This discussion has come up countless number of times and the answer is always the same - all of us would rather wait for quality, but we'd also like some very rough timeline estimates that don't fall back into the past. Notice that I said nothing about them having to be 100% accurate. The questions are about the published timelines, the answers are about the process. Hence, nothing ever gets resolved. It makes no sense at all to have a published timeline, but claim that it is irrelevant because it's done when it's done. Do you not agree? For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) Any date in the future will provide some information regarding the release process, no matter how vague. Having a timeline that is in the past provides no information whatsoever, and only irritates people who are trying to do some planning of their own around the FreeBSD release process. People aren't complaining because of missed dates, they are complaining because of a lack of information; information that should take no time or difficulty at all to provide. At least that is my personal opinion. - Max ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: This discussion has come up countless number of times and the answer is always the same - all of us would rather wait for quality, but we'd also like some very rough timeline estimates that don't fall back into the past. Notice that I said nothing about them having to be 100% accurate. The questions are about the published timelines, the answers are about the process. Hence, nothing ever gets resolved. It makes no sense at all to have a published timeline, but claim that it is irrelevant because it's done when it's done. Do you not agree? I agree to a point. I wouldn't push something out if it was less than what could/should be expected. I haven't been a FreeBSD user long enough to remember the (previously quoted) 5.0 debacle, but I'm sure if I waited for a new release only to be disappointed, who knows what OS I may have went with. Yes, keeping users informed on the status of releases is nice -- that's what we have the ML for. For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) My point was that it shouldn't be one or the other. Taking a few minutes to update the web page does not interfere with the debugging process. It also doesn't force developers to follow that timeline. It is simply an indication to the users what their expectations should be at the present time. - Max ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) My point was that it shouldn't be one or the other. Taking a few minutes to update the web page does not interfere with the debugging process. It also doesn't force developers to follow that timeline. It is simply an indication to the users what their expectations should be at the present time. - Max Again, I wonder if the reason for the delays is that too much work is being taken on for each release. I agree that FreeBSD should be released when it is done and quality is of utmost importance. Perhaps it would be better to focus on adding a few less features than planned, so that they can be implemented well and on time. I admit, I am not part of the project, and in the end, I have no idea what's going on. I just know that other projects with FAR less developers have found a way to do this, so it's not *that* hard. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:12 -0800 Joe S js.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) My point was that it shouldn't be one or the other. Taking a few minutes to update the web page does not interfere with the debugging process. It also doesn't force developers to follow that timeline. It is simply an indication to the users what their expectations should be at the present time. - Max Again, I wonder if the reason for the delays is that too much work is being taken on for each release. I agree that FreeBSD should be released when it is done and quality is of utmost importance. Perhaps it would be better to focus on adding a few less features than planned, so that they can be implemented well and on time. I admit, I am not part of the project, and in the end, I have no idea what's going on. I just know that other projects with FAR less developers have found a way to do this, so it's not *that* hard. My biggest gripe with the entire update schedule is that the ports freeze has been frozen longer than my wife. Maybe having two separate ports, one for the current version and one for the RC? version might work better. I have never fully understood why the ports had to be frozen anyway. Why can there not be two separate entities, the current version and the beta one? -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Many a bum show has been saved by the flag. George M. Cohan signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Release schedules
Hi there, For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the I have offered to update the pages if it can help somehow. I cannot do more but I can do this at least. Yours, -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.faitrade.net.pl www.slowo.pl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 01:01:47PM +0100, Roland Smith wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. Actually, it's not so bad that the PRERELEASE phase is so long: in this time, more bugs are being fixed that would have normally been lingering in the pr database. Quality is much more important than deadlines, IMHO; and those lenghty code freeze phases are a blessing since they help stabilize the code base. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 03:13:47PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: On Wednesday 12 November 2008 14:01:47 Roland Smith wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project Oh, I fully understand that, which is why I also asked whether there's anything I can do to help, with my meagre abilities and resources. Acquire the skills necessary and contribute in an area that interests you, where you can scratch an itch so to speak. This wasn't intended to demean the efforts of the release team at all; it was more a plea for better communication when delays start to accumulate. I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. Yes - but is it not possible to estimate (and as a long-suffering sysadmin, I know I'm on shaky ground here after some of the estimated schedules I've given my management and my users!) roughly how far off we are? Even the old todo list on the website offered some guide. Watch the mailing-lists. freebsd-announce, freebsd-current, freebsd-stable and maybe freebsd-hackers. Or contact the release engineering team. See http://www.freebsd.org/releng/index.html Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpjdqwIPs3f8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Release schedules
cpghost writes: next release: when it's done. Actually, it's not so bad that the PRERELEASE phase is so long: in this time, more bugs are being fixed that would have normally been lingering in the pr database. The problem is not technical; no one has a problem with the idea right is better than sooner. The problem is administrative: failure to create reasonable expectations among the general user community, and particularly failure let people know when those expectations - for necessary and sufficient reasons - need to change. Case at hand: given that 7.1-Beta2 has been pending for (as far as I can tell) nearly two months (or maybe more) and - based on a casual reading of current@ - is in no danger of happening soon, the information at http://www.freebsd.org/releng/index.html about a November release for 7.1 is clearly a no-op. Yes, the page says approximate and subject to slippage. But those should be measured against the context of an otherwise realisitic schedule; early November slips to late November, not April. (If this sees a bit of a hot button ... some of us are flashing on the many months of almost got it that preceded 5.0.) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
On Wednesday 12 November 2008 11:59:24 Jonathan McKeown wrote: What exactly is going on, and is there anything a busy sysadmin, poor in time, bandwidth and C skills, can do to help with either the release itself or the apparent scheduling/communication issues? The best thing to do, is to free up a test machine with daily RELENG_7 builds, query the bin and kern PR database for open reports and see which one you'd be able to replicate. Then add 'me too' to the report with additional info, and use your experience to add additional information that might be relevant. In other words: help solving bugs. -- Mel Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules and never get to the software part. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
- Original Message - From: Jonathan McKeown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: Release schedules I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? On november 3, Ken Smith wrote: The second Release Candidate for FreeBSD 6.4 is now available. FreeBSD 6.4-RC2 should be the last of the public test builds for the FreeBSD 6.4 release cycle. Unless a big show-stopper is found from this round of testing we should begin the 6.4-RELEASE builds in about a week and a half. We encourage you to test out 6.4-RC2 and report any problems by submitting PRs or via email to the freebsd-stable list. Accoording to this Releaese engineering is making the 6.4-RELEASE at this very moment. After finishing this release I think they will turn to the 7.1-RELEASE. Jack ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE, according to the scheduling page at www.freebsd.org, should have had a Release Candidate published two months ago, on 13 September. Instead we're still on a Beta - BETA-2, which isn't mentioned in the original schedule. The todo list which has appeared on the website in previous releases isn't available this time, so I can't even get a feel for the likely cause of the holdup. As I said, I hate to stand on the sidelines and heckle when I'm not doing anything to contribute to the release, but the timetable has slipped badly and I don't feel I can find information about the reasons or the revised timings. What exactly is going on, and is there anything a busy sysadmin, poor in time, bandwidth and C skills, can do to help with either the release itself or the apparent scheduling/communication issues? (I've sent this to -questions rather than -stable because it seems to be an ongoing problem with the timetabling of releases.) Those dates are guesses at best and should be taken as such. People crabbing about missing those dates has resulted in not posting any dates at times in the past. I would rather have a fair guess than no information at all.It would be OK if Release Engineering would occasionally update their guesses as they get more information.But, they tend to be quite busy just getting all the things needed to do the release taken care of so I imagine they don't even think about it. Probably at this time of final builds and running test suites, people are busy cleaning up last things that didn't play well together - modifications that may have banged heads or that required another thing to be updated. Ports have to be built against the release candidate too and that can reveal some things that need to be fixed at the last minute. Undoubtably, some conflicts have been discovered as final builds are being made that have to be addresses before a release is considered clean and finally ready to be released. If you have the resources to install and run the betas and give them a good beating and then carefully report any anomalies and conflicts you find, that might help. Generally, more detail in the reports is better than less detail. I would like to see the release schedules updated more and I would guess that others would too. But, there is only so much you can expect out of volunteers already robbing time from their paying jobs. jerry Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Release schedules
On Behalf Of Jonathan McKeown What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Please keep in mind that the work is being done almost entirely by volunteers donating their spare time. I don't know about you, but for me, spare time is what is left over after all of my other commitments are taken care of. i.e. family, income, home, etc. The amount of spare time I have fluctuates significantly, sometimes entirely disappearing for days, and is completely unpredictable. Now, some day we may be more fortunate, like Linux where Linus and several others are each being paid by some company or consortium just to maintain various portions of the system. But until that day comes, we have to allow the maintainers some slack in this and other issues. Patience is a virtue, Bob McConnell ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
Hello, I would like to see the release schedules updated more and I would guess that others would too. But, there is only so much you can expect out of volunteers already robbing time from their paying jobs. I'd be happy to contribute by updating the website provided I am kept informed about the releases by the engineers. If FBSD team is interested, I here to help. Contact me offline, please. I feel I need to give at least something back to the community for this excellent project. -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
On Wednesday 12 November 2008 14:01:47 Roland Smith wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project Oh, I fully understand that, which is why I also asked whether there's anything I can do to help, with my meagre abilities and resources. This wasn't intended to demean the efforts of the release team at all; it was more a plea for better communication when delays start to accumulate. I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. Yes - but is it not possible to estimate (and as a long-suffering sysadmin, I know I'm on shaky ground here after some of the estimated schedules I've given my management and my users!) roughly how far off we are? Even the old todo list on the website offered some guide. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release schedules
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpeBzx3L5eIM.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Release schedules
Now, some day we may be more fortunate, like Linux where Linus and several others are each being paid by some company or consortium just to EVERY good free software magically turns into crap when it gets heavy financing. for OSes i don't know any exceptions... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedules
On Thu, June 7, 2007 17:28, Tom Grove wrote: Are there release schedules for 6.3 and 7.0 up on the web somewhere? Something like: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.2R/schedule.html http://www.freebsd.org/releng/index.html Patrick -Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
